I didn't say otherwise. Greybob said several of those video include "hard" or "great" bosses which aren't hard, just drawn-out and
tedious, which is pretty much all sixteen of them.
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Hardest/ Most Difficult Bosses?
| Author | Comment | ||
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 Captain Ladd Spencer |
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Posts: 2223 (02/20/09 12:33 PM) Behold the many |
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 15594 (02/20/09 12:54 PM) Administrator |
Talking about Final Fantasy 3 reminded me a bit more of the issue of long (but easy) "challenges" in a game.
I didn't time myself going through FF3's last dungeon, but maybe a reasonable estimate could be that it took me 2 hours. That's a really long time! I beat that dungeon on my first try, but can you imagine if you didn't? Having to replay a two hour dungeon would be a nightmare. Consequently, usually game designers don't make it so you're likely to die in a really long challenge. Usually the threat of having to redo something that's very time consuming is enough to add some tension to the experience. Of course, it's kind of a fake tension, and once those things are over, the victory feels hollow. So, that's another problem, on top of long challenges just being tedious anyway. After the first post was made in this thread, I saw a Youtube video like the ones being talked about where someone said that Bowser from Paper Mario was one of the hardest bosses ever. Come on! The justification was that it was a long fight because he can heal, and in that case you can clearly see that the boss was designed to be long rather than hard. Because even though he can heal himself, he won't be able to heal all the damage you deal. So, it's inevitable that you will win, but healing puts victory off a little. |
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MaskedSheik |
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Posts: 892 (02/20/09 4:36 PM) |
Sometimes when the majority of a game is of tepid difficulty, gamers get surprised at the one or two hard levels at the end and exaggerate how tough they are.
I was arguing with someone about whether Super Mario Bros. 3 or Super Mario World is better and the discussion came to which game is harder. He claimed that
Special Road is harder than anything in Mario 3. Well, not really. It's only that the rest of Mario World is easy due to the overpowered cape so when a
level comes along that you can't fly over, like Tubular or Mondo, it seems harder than it is.
In Paper Mario's case, the whole game is so mind-numbingly easy that Bowser's healing move can spook you........if you're eleven years old. Yeah, I was eleven and I was spooked; I even wondered for a few seconds if I could beat Bowser on my first try. I did. The fact that this represents the peak of Paper Mario's difficulty doesn't reflect well on the rest of the game. |
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MaskedSheik |
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Posts: 892 (02/20/09 4:45 PM) |
Sadly, this type of "spook" is what gamers try to substitute for real difficulty. They think you can call a boss "difficult" if he
occasionally scares you into thinking he'll win.
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Captain Ladd Spencer |
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Posts: 2223 (02/20/09 6:25 PM) Behold the many |
I beat Bowser on my first try. In fact, the only Game Over I got in my entire play through Paper Mario was against Huff 'n Puff.
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Idiot Fanboy |
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Posts: 8 (02/20/09 10:27 PM) |
How can you guys not like Paper Mario? It's the most innocent game ever made! It might be too easy, too repetitive, and the music may be as annoying as all
hell, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's just plain FUN!
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Gray leader rules |
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Posts: 157 (02/21/09 6:48 AM) |
Those R-Type videos were great, thanks. Things I've learnt: I suck at R-Type and level 6's boss does not deserve to be mentioned here. As for level 7,
I don't know if this is a stupid addition to the Dimensions version, but if you get fairly close to the boss and have the force on the back of your ship,
nothing can hit you.
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 Flying Omelette |
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Crawl watched a video where someone did that to the Level 7 boss, so it must be a legitimate trick.
There's also a similar trick for the final boss, but you have to have both pits. |
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 15594 (02/21/09 1:21 PM) Administrator |
There's no force if you start level 7 from the midpoint, though.
On the other hand, when I beat the game's second quest, I couldn't figure out how to beat stage 7 from the midpoint. I'm not sure if it's literally impossible, but it sure seemed that way. I needed a force. Actually, now that I think about it, it might not be that mysterious how I came up with that level 6 boss strategy. I believe every single one of those big enemies in the stage has its vulnerable spot on the right side ... UNTIL you get to the boss. So, that's probably how I got the idea of staying in that corner. I probably first thought I wouldn't have to move at all. I saw a Youtube video where someone did it fairly differently, including using the upper left corner of the screen as a safe spot instead of the lower right. That seems to me to be less intuitive. I don't even remember how it worked now. I think I'm less aware of what other people do for R-Type 2. There's only one boss I use a cheesy "safe spot" style strategy against in that game -- the stage 5 boss. And I did that because I couldn't imagine how else it could be conceivably beaten. |
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greybob |
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Posts: 1249 (02/21/09 5:44 PM) |
Here's the sort of thing I was talking about.� Some guy's apparently holding a contest type deal on YouTube for people to vote on the toughest bosses.�
There was a nomination stage on another video, but it's obviously over now.
Well, gee, I dunno.� I guess I'd say BioLizard, Sephiroth and Mike Tyson, but over all those are some pretty crappy choices. You guys can vote on this too, if you want.� Just post in the comments. P.S. I'd say Biolizard is more annoying than hard.� Oh well.
I live on the internet.
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 15594 (02/21/09 7:03 PM) Administrator |
Uh, yeah, the nominees there don't seem very good.
Is Sephiroth supposed to be harder in KH2, or is that (as I imagine) just another bad choice? |
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greybob |
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Posts: 1249 (02/21/09 9:29 PM) |
I thought that Sephiroth was harder in KH1, but I don't know if that's the popular consensus. In my opinion, the changes they made to the
second game's battle system made the fighting even easier.
I don't even know what that last selection on that video is. I don't even recognize the name of the game. Another thing I don't like to see on these lists is bosses that are optional, or when they specify that the boss is only one of the hardest bosses in a certain difficulty setting. For example, Sephiroth is optional, and the Tabuu, and HAG-01 in the video had certain difficulty settings ammended to them. Here's a question: if one of those bosses is considered tough in a higher difficulty setting, then what would they think of a REALLY tough boss in a higher difficulty?
I live on the internet.
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greybob |
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Posts: 1249 (02/21/09 10:00 PM) |
And let's not forget Giygas, the boss that is beaten by using "pray" over and over.
I live on the internet.
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greybob |
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Posts: 1249 (02/21/09 10:04 PM) |
More sampling of my pain...
I think the best part of that one might be at the end when it says "Sephiroth (Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 and all the FF he was in.)"� He was only in FF7!� And he was a push-over there.� That just gives the impression that they haven't even played any Final Fantasy, not even FF7.
I live on the internet.
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 15594 (02/21/09 10:30 PM) Administrator |
It seems like these people have only played games from the past 5 years or so, so they have no perspective.
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TaroSH |
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Posts: 2952 (02/21/09 11:28 PM) I Ain't Afraid of No Ghost |
greybob wrote:To be fair, Giegue makes Giygas look like Zizzy Balooba. Giygas is actually kind of scary. Giegue looks like a cross between Mewtwo and a tapeworm in a hamster ball. The background music for fighting Giygas, while hardly a song, at least doesn't sound like cicadas from Hell. On this and the above notes, click here, just stare at the picture while listening to the song, and tell me you're not going to have nightmares tonight. Watching everyone you met through the course of the game pray for your safety is more heartwarming than watching the screen flash colors and listening to a whiny song over and over.
Last Edited By: TaroSH
02/21/09 11:30 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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greybob |
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Posts: 1249 (02/21/09 11:42 PM) |
Yeah, but "scary" or "heartwarming" doesn't equate to "Hardest Boss of All Time." Wow, EB0 really DID make you appreciate Earthbound. I think that's kind of like why I think I'm a bit easier on modern games. I played so many REALLY bad games when I was younger, that now even New Super Mario Bros. looks like a classic in comparrison. That doesn't explain the rest of the modern gaming crowd's giving perfect 10's to everything with gewd grafix or lots of blood and boobies. Unlike me, I doubt they grew up on a steady diet of Rugrats games, bad Blockbuster rentals, and enough license-based games to fill 10 landfills.
I live on the internet.
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Flying Omelette |
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TaroSH wrote: Ha ha! The screenshot on that guy's Disturbing Video Game Music Tracks 2 is from my Donkey Kong 64 Shrine. If that guy really wants some disturbing game music, he should listen to the Ropeway Station theme from Paladin's Quest. To be honest, I lost the first few times to Giygas because I didn't catch what Pokey meant by that hint-drop and I didn't know to use Pray. Even after I figured it out, I found it difficult to survive the fight. He's MUCH easier for me on replays now, though, because I'm usually leveled a bit higher when I get to him than I was when I first beat him. I don't remember anymore exactly what level I was when I first got to him, but when I mentioned it on the internet, there were some people who were like, "How'd you even get to him that low?" I guess I never once stopped to level-build on my first playthrough. But now I tend to level up a bit with the Fobbys and Criminal Caterpillars. |
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greybob |
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Posts: 1249 (02/22/09 12:17 AM) |
Coincidentally, that guy that posted that Giygas music and the disturbing game music is the same guy who's doing the Hardest Boss contest I posted the
video for earlier.
I live on the internet.
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Captain Ladd Spencer |
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Posts: 2223 (02/22/09 1:11 AM) Behold the many |
greybob wrote:Oh dang, sorry, I didn't watch the video and read that completely out of context. I thought you were going back to the "bosses that aren't great, just drawn out" point. |
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