Your Webcomic is Bad and You Should Feel Bad

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ErniePants

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Posts: 599

(05/30/08 12:37 PM)

Omni-Wonder
of the Universe

Now that Perry Bible is retired, XKCD is the only webcomic I read regularly.

The Omni-Wonder of the Universe has spoken
~cackle ~cackle

Flying Omelette

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Posts: 20851

(06/01/08 4:49 PM)

But you had to have the BIIIIIG salad!

CRAWLand1000 wrote:
I've heard people complain about xkcd fans, who are so smug and think that people that don't like xkcd just are too dumb to get it.

That does sounds annoying ... until I came in contact with people who hate xkcd, and through their complaints I get the idea that they are just too dumb to get it.

The complaint seems to be that the whole joke is, "Look, a science concept!" That is NEVER the joke.

Like for the cat proximity one.

Is the joke, "Hey, look, a graph!" No, the joke is based on "it's funny because it's true." People do act that way around cats (and sometimes babies). The reason for the graph is that it helps communicate the joke (it is not the joke itself) in a brief, and thus witty, way.

But you have to at least have the bare minimum intelligence that your brain doesn't freeze up when you see a graph to get that joke.

This very same subject was mentioned earlier in the topic and I said then that I think those people really are just stupid. It's the equivalent of saying Airplane! isn't funny because airplanes aren't funny.

Think of what you're saying,
You can get it wrong
And still you think that it's all right.
Think of what I'm saying,
We can work it out
And get it straight or say good night.

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God, I know I'm one

Last Edited By: Flying Omelette 06/01/08 6:44 PM. Edited 1 times.

TaroSH

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Posts: 2952

(06/02/08 11:07 AM)

I Ain't Afraid of No Ghost

Related to this topic but not the previous posts, but at Yahtzee's home page Fully Ramblomatic (not Zero Punctuation) if you search "you cad" it takes you to an entry about Ctrl+Alt+Del, webcomics, and some other stuff I thought was a decent read.

CRAWLand1000

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Posts: 3590

(06/02/08 12:35 PM)

The Fuzzy Physicist
Administrator

Well, his point that CAD is too wordy and that Buckley has no idea how to tell a joke is stuff that everyone has already thought about that comic.

"Without a foothold in the past, we cannot walk towards the future."
-Vagrant Story

TaroSH

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Posts: 2952

(06/02/08 12:38 PM)

I Ain't Afraid of No Ghost

True, but he also took the opportunity to make some general observations on writing and criticism, like "the cruellest thing you can do to an artist is tell them their work is flawless when it isn't"

ErniePants

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Posts: 599

(06/02/08 12:45 PM)

Omni-Wonder
of the Universe

I don't much like CAD (or any "gaming" comic for that matter), but if something is enjoyable and entertaining to me, I wouldn't harass the creator over every little flaw I might perceive in it. For an example, I wouldn't pester the XKCD guy to draw real people instead of stick figures.

The Omni-Wonder of the Universe has spoken
~cackle ~cackle

Crawl and 1OOO

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Posts: 15578

(06/02/08 6:53 PM)

Administrator

TaroSH wrote:
True, but he also took the opportunity to make some general observations on writing and criticism, like "the cruellest thing you can do to an artist is tell them their work is flawless when it isn't"

Well, when you tell them their work is flawless and give them money for it, enough that they can live off it, it's probably not very cruel at all.

Forum Jackass

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Posts: 146

(06/03/08 7:59 AM)

I took a look at his links page and noticed this:

8-bit Theatre - In the face of webcomics like this, faith in my own ability to run a webcomic as good was quickly lost.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Seriously, though. As bad as CAD is, Tim Buckley does not deserve the entire brunt of the internet's criticism for being "too wordy" when things like SomethingAwful and 8-Bit Theatre (and about a million other megapopular sites I could mention) are just as bad (but for some reason, no one has the guts to say it about them.)

And are the people ciriticizing others for saying his art is "flawless" really think they're any different when they say the same about anything Hideo Kojima, Fumito Ueda, or Suda51 shits out?

Oh my God, they found Tom.

Crawl and 1OOO

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Posts: 15578

(06/03/08 8:10 AM)

Administrator

8-bit theater is probably my personal least favorite webcomic. People might be able to argue that others are worse in some way or another, but the thing is, I've read maybe a dozen or so Shredded Mouse strips. I'll read a CAD strip when it's brought up, but I never bothered checking it regularly or going through the archive.

But I once, for some reason, kept trying to force myself through 8-bit theater, and now when I think about it, I get the same instinctual shuddering I would get from thinking about eating a blackened banana.

Even if you don't know what poison is at first, you learn.

Crawl and 1OOO

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Posts: 15578

(06/03/08 8:14 AM)

Administrator

What I don't get is what Buckley's self-insertion character thinks he's doing, having a kid when he's working at Gamestop?

At least his wife had a miscarriage, which is supposed to be all DRAMA, but will probably really just get back to status quo.

Crawl and 1OOO

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Posts: 15578

(06/03/08 8:25 AM)

Administrator

Well, when you tell them their work is flawless and give them money for it, enough that they can live off it, it's probably not very cruel at all.

To elaborate on that a little more...

If someone gets early praise and money for their work, they might improve. Or they might not. (If CAD is an example of something that didn't improve, then The Beatles could be an example of something that did) But they have a chance, because they can work full time on their art.

But if someone doesn't get praise or money for their work, it is that much harder to improve. Many people have to give up altogether.

ErniePants

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Posts: 599

(06/03/08 12:36 PM)

Omni-Wonder
of the Universe

Forum Jackass wrote:

Seriously, though. As bad as CAD is, Tim Buckley does not deserve the entire brunt of the internet's criticism for being "too wordy" when things like SomethingAwful and 8-Bit Theatre (and about a million other megapopular sites I could mention) are just as bad (but for some reason, no one has the guts to say it about them.)

It's my understanding that there are other reasons people hate him, not just his wordiness.

And are the people ciriticizing others for saying his art is "flawless" really think they're any different when they say the same about anything Hideo Kojima, Fumito Ueda, or Suda51 shits out?

Judging by some of Yahtzee's reviews, I don't think he'd be the kind to just say anything is art. He didn't like Bioshock, for starters.

The Omni-Wonder of the Universe has spoken
~cackle ~cackle

Forum Jackass

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Posts: 146

(06/03/08 12:49 PM)

Yes, I know, I was being a total jerk. Sometimes, I just get these feelings of jadedness and then no one is safe from my temporary wrath.

I know that the implication was there in my post that I was specifically targeting Yahtzee, but I really meant that more as a general statement. I've seen that around other places - people saying that webcomic artists should always listen to criticism, but then turn around and blow a gasket if someone dares criticizes a flaw in their OMG! 10/10!! Perfect!! favorite game that's more than a game it's ART!!.

Incidentally, I watched his Bio Shock review awhile ago and I did like it.

As for Buckley, I don't know him personally, so I'm not going to make judgments on his personal character, no matter what people say.

Oh my God, they found Tom.

Forum Jackass

[-]

Posts: 146

(06/03/08 12:54 PM)

Crawl and 1OOO wrote:
What I don't get is what Buckley's self-insertion character thinks he's doing, having a kid when he's working at Gamestop?

At least his wife had a miscarriage, which is supposed to be all DRAMA, but will probably really just get back to status quo.

Seriously, it doesn't surprise me. People generally think everyone is supposed to have kids, and they don't particularly care if you're really in the best financial situation to. For example, my dad was a gas station attendant (which I seriously doubt pays more than a job at Gamestop, although maybe they collect a little more in tips - another reason I'm glad I'm the fuck out of NJ) and my mother refused to work, and somehow they had three kids.

And I also got asked again recently by someone if I was planning to have kids, by someone I hardly even know. (Seems like a rather personal question to ask of someone you've only just met.)

Oh my God, they found Tom.

Crawl and 1OOO

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Posts: 15578

(06/03/08 12:57 PM)

Administrator

But people DO criticize some things and give others a pass. Like, Yahtzee complained about CAD's art, but not 8-Bit theater's? (Which many other people do as well) I feel like I'm in the twilight zone or something for having to point this out, but the 8-bit theater guy can't draw, didn't even design the characters he uses, and copy-pastes more than Powerup Comic.

See how your opinion ruined Christmas for everyone!

Forum Jackass

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Posts: 146

(06/03/08 1:12 PM)

That's one of the reasons why I'm feeling jaded. The commentors on the bad webcomics blog have pretty much ruined it. (Well, if the "elders" updated the blog, I'd probably still read the reviews, but no way will I touch the comments anymore.)

When you see the reviewers make all those points about the comics they're criticizing, and then look down at the comments to see people praising 8-Bit Theater as a great comic, it leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.

My original point, however, wasn't even so much people liking 8-Bit vs. CAD so much as the notion that it's nearly impossible for a comic to achieve better than 8-Bit is ludicrous. It's not a very high bar to shoot for.

Oh my God, they found Tom.

Crawl and 1OOO

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Posts: 15578

(06/03/08 1:35 PM)

Administrator

...and people criticize CAD for Google Image Searching when 8BT does the same thing! Jesus!

See how your opinion ruined Christmas for everyone!

Captain Ladd Spencer

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Posts: 2216

(06/03/08 2:35 PM)

Behold the many
uses of my amazing
BIONIC ARM!

ErniePants wrote:
Judging by some of Yahtzee's reviews, I don't think he'd be the kind to just say anything is art. He didn't like Bioshock, for starters.

He liked Bioshock (although in his Halo 3 review, he said Halo 3 made him look back on Bioshock more favorably), just didn't love it and make declarations about shoving it up Ebert's ass or anything.

Forum Jackass

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Posts: 146

(06/03/08 5:05 PM)

Maybe I need to watch the review again, but I was also under the impression he didn't like it too much. I thought I remember him saying it was almost the same as the game it's a sequel to.

Oh my God, they found Tom.

CLOUDBOND007

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Posts: 12333

(06/03/08 5:16 PM)

Lunitari Mage
Moderator

Bioshock was a sequel to something?

CB007's Review & GPT Archive
CB007's Gaming BBS

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