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 CLOUDBOND007 |
Stupid ebay policy |
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Posts: 10297 (02/03/08 2:42 AM) Lunitari Mage |
If you're a seller, you can no longer leave neutral or negative feedback to a bidder. If someone buys on ebay but doesn't ever sell anything, they are
guaranteed a 100% feedback rating. As you'd imagine, people aren't happy about it:
Story and discussion: http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000508682&start=0 |
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 11122 (02/03/08 9:53 AM) The Fuzzy Physicist
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Well, my first thought after reading your post was, "Okay, this seems stupid ... but there must be a reason for it."
And after reading that letter, they explained it pretty well: Bad sellers are a bigger problem than bad buyers. And when good buyers leave bad feedback for bad sellers, the bad sellers leave retaliatory bad feedback for the buyers. Consequently, no one was leaving bad feedback for sellers for fear of that. And there are still measures for sellers to deal with really bad buyers (some unpaid item system) I see users are still complaining about even this, so maybe it's just a complicated situation with no easy solution. Or maybe the users are not rational. They're complaining, but I don't see them giving any useful counter-suggestions. The hilarious thing, to me, is that this ebay policy is supposed to prevent retaliatory behavior from sellers -- and the sellers in that thread say that now they're about to retaliate. I see there are four categories for rating sellers now: -Item as described -Communication -Shipping Time -Shipping and Handling charges Of those, only two can apply to buyers (communication and payment time). So, there are more ways for a seller to be bad than a buyer. Also, haven't people been complaining for ages about sellers having outrageous shipping and handling charges to make extra profit? |
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TaroSH |
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Posts: 2257 (02/03/08 11:39 AM) I Ain't Afraid of No Ghost |
Well, it's not like the sellers haven't already found something to abuse and exploit.
Crawl mentioned shipping, but does anybody by chance remember that topic I made about the new eBay checkout? They went back to the old one for a while, then back to the shitty new one, the one where the buyer can't calculate the shipping cost and has to wait for the seller to send them an invoice. I bought several games from somebody who had a shipping deal, where 2-4 games is $2 off shipping for each of those games, which eBay automatically figured and applied it to every game. But if you buy five games shipping is $10 then every game after that is $1.50, but eBay did not automatically figure this. On the eighth day I bought the last game, asked for an invoice, and they would NOT send it. Two days later was the day my payment was due, so I had to either pay an extra $20 shipping, or face negative feedback and a non-paying bidder notice. Normally when something's wrong with my item I can contact the seller and work something out, but I've dealt with this place before, and their Customer Service is fucking nonexistant. I've worn them off after this shit, and every time I've ordered from them they always fuck up something like sending me a complete, used version of a game that was supposed to be sealed, then when I send it back they send me ANOTHER complete, used version of that game. Or if I buy all games they've listed as "no problems with cartridge", I always find sticker residue and writing on a couple. Aaaand of course, if I had left truthful feedback, they would have left it for me. So, I think this is awesome. The only thing sellers might have to worry about is if something's wrong with the item the buyer might leave negative feedback before working something out.
Last Edited By: TaroSH
02/03/08 11:50 AM.
Edited 4 times.
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CLOUDBOND007 |
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Posts: 10297 (02/03/08 1:40 PM) Lunitari Mage |
Well, I'll try to keep an open mind then, but it still seems unfair that a bidder can have perfect feedback even if they're slow to pay (admittedly
less common with Paypal being so popular) or complain about problems with your item that don't exist, or leave negative feedback to sellers when it
isn't justified, or whatever. Maybe they could have left it so you can at least leave them neutral feedback.
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abaxa |
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Posts: 32 (02/03/08 1:56 PM) |
I've heard this around the net but just now actually read the statement of change for eBay. Looking it over I can't see any permanent barring of
neutral or negative feedback from buyers to sellers.
To promote communication, buyers will be prevented from leaving a public negative or neutral Feedback within 3 days of a listing's end for sellers with an established track record (new sellers can still pose a fraud risk);I take that to mean that after the 3 days are over neutral and negative feedback can be posted by the buyer. This also only happens with sellers that have been around for awhile. It directly correlates with a quote just above it. If a buyer attempts to extort a discount by threatening to leave negative feedback unless the seller changes the terms of their listing, we need the seller to report the buyer to us. And we'll have policy and process in place to hold small minority of bad buyers accountable and, if we have to suspend the buyer, we'll remove any negative or neutral feedback they leave.It seems to me that bad people are on both sides and eBay is doing what it can to prevent them from screwing people over.
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"Nevertheless, a rule is a rule. We can't go about making exceptions to these rules just because they're stupid. We can't even use a case-by-case basis to see if the intent of the (stupid) rule doesn't apply to this particular book. No, no, a thousand times no! We must have iron-clad, meaningless rules, and we must follow them to the letter!!! Otherwise, anarchy will result." --Dadof3, Snopes messageboard --Well of course anarchy will result! Duh, that's what the dancing chickens are for. My YouTube page. |
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TaroSH |
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Posts: 2257 (02/03/08 3:02 PM) I Ain't Afraid of No Ghost |
I was thinking that an alternative would be to require the seller leave feedback first, and the buyer can't leave feedback, positive, neutral, or negative,
until the seller leaves feedback first.
The sellers can't give retalitory feedback if the buyer gives them negative, because they've already left feedback about the transaction. Plus, it's more likely to be honest about the transaction. Buyers can't scam sellers into giving them a discount because they can't leave feedback until the seller does. And hey, if a seller doesn't want to leave feedback, they won't get any either. |
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Flying Omelette |
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Posts: 17536 (02/03/08 4:26 PM) Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts |
I think you should seriously suggest that if no one else has yet.
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Captain Ladd Spencer |
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Posts: 1532 (02/03/08 6:21 PM) Behold the many |
I did, but it's sitting in a pool of "FUCK U EBAY ALL U WANT IS $$$ U DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT UR CUSTOMERS!1"
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CLOUDBOND007 |
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Posts: 10297 (02/03/08 10:10 PM) Lunitari Mage |
Looking it over I can't see any permanent barring of neutral or negative feedback from buyers to sellers.We were talking about sellers leaving feedback to buyers, though. |
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abaxa |
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Posts: 32 (02/05/08 1:24 AM) |
CLOUDBOND007 wrote: In the linked article I see no mention of that. Perhaps I have simply overlooked it. Can you provide a cite please?
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"Nevertheless, a rule is a rule. We can't go about making exceptions to these rules just because they're stupid. We can't even use a case-by-case basis to see if the intent of the (stupid) rule doesn't apply to this particular book. No, no, a thousand times no! We must have iron-clad, meaningless rules, and we must follow them to the letter!!! Otherwise, anarchy will result." --Dadof3, Snopes messageboard --Well of course anarchy will result! Duh, that's what the dancing chickens are for. My YouTube page. |
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CLOUDBOND007 |
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Posts: 10297 (02/05/08 1:35 AM) Lunitari Mage |
I could have sworn it was stated in there, maybe that link was only explaining why they were making changes in a general sense.
Here's a different one. Click on "What's Changing" http://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/new.html There are five key elements to the new Feedback system being introduced in the first half of 2008: Then if you click Why is it Changing:
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CLOUDBOND007 |
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Posts: 10297 (02/05/08 1:42 AM) Lunitari Mage |
Don't know if this is true or not, but just an example of what could happen:
I listed a dozen CDs sunday night. Today, I get an email from a possible buyer telling me that my shipping charge is too high, and that if he wins, I'd best reduce it or he'd neg me for it.Supposedly, a lot of buyers think the new rule is already in effect and have threatened to complain to ebay about receiving negative feedback because "sellers aren't allowed to do that" |
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INFPGamer |
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Posts: 77 (02/06/08 6:16 PM) |
From the 3rd section on that page:
What happens when a buyer uses negative Feedback as a threat to receive better service or additional goods/services from the seller? If a buyer uses the threat of negative Feedback to demand more than what was promised in the item description (e.g. wants overnight delivery but only paid for standard delivery) the seller should immediately report the buyer to eBay. If there is clear evidence of extortion eBay will take action typically on a first offense If a buyer shows a pattern of malicious behavior (multiple seller reports such as UPI), eBay will most likely suspend the buyer If we suspend the buyer, any negative or neutral Feedback the buyers left for sellers will be removed. Sellers should only file these complaints when the buyer asks for more than what is promised in the listing. Filing a false claim may result in seller suspension.
In my viens it courses through
That addictive Code Red Mountain Dew |
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 11122 (02/06/08 9:41 PM) The Fuzzy Physicist
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Maybe what ebay should do is have a communication service, and make everyone communicate through that (rather than email). That way, there'd be an
official record of any sort of extortion activity.
Of course, it's easy to make impractical suggestions... |
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CLOUDBOND007 |
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Posts: 10297 (02/06/08 10:15 PM) Lunitari Mage |
Ebay does have their own messenger service, but I can't remember if it's mandatory or not. It didn't used to be, but I haven't done ebay
seriously in a long time now, so it could be at this point. If it is mandatory, I'm not sure what that person is worried about, unless he thinks ebay
won't act on his report.
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CLOUDBOND007 |
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Posts: 10297 (02/07/08 2:57 PM) Lunitari Mage |
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abaxa |
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Posts: 32 (02/09/08 12:47 PM) |
Thank you for the cite Cloud, now things make alot more sense to me. I don't think this change will really help much. The manipulation that has been
going on has always been behind the curtain. eBay should make their messenger service mandatory and require all business-related communications to pass
through it. Logs should be easily available for anyone to request, but with sensitive private information withheld from everyone except law enforcement (ex.
address and phone number). It might be a huge expenditure but investing in such infrastructure would save eBay tremendous headache down the road.
The change in reputation I think is the biggest aid for everyone. Frankly only the last 12 months are really relevant.
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"Nevertheless, a rule is a rule. We can't go about making exceptions to these rules just because they're stupid. We can't even use a case-by-case basis to see if the intent of the (stupid) rule doesn't apply to this particular book. No, no, a thousand times no! We must have iron-clad, meaningless rules, and we must follow them to the letter!!! Otherwise, anarchy will result." --Dadof3, Snopes messageboard --Well of course anarchy will result! Duh, that's what the dancing chickens are for. My YouTube page. |
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CLOUDBOND007 |
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Posts: 10297 (02/10/08 10:19 PM) Lunitari Mage |
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Captain Ladd Spencer |
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Posts: 1532 (02/10/08 11:02 PM) Behold the many |
Sounds like most of the fuss is the change in eBay fees, not the feedback.
Which is understandable, I guess. |
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