Mr. Cranky brought up this point in his review of Evan Almighty. Why is it
whenever the subject of rationality vs. mysticism comes up in a movie, mysticism always wins?
When Crawl and I saw Ratatouille, there was a trailer for Mr. Magorium's Wonder
Emporium, a movie in which Jason Bateman is cynical about a magical toy store, but of course, the magic is real.
What is the point of teaching that magic is real when we know it isn't? Why is this reinforced year after year, movie after movie?
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 Flying Omelette |
Why do movies always teach that magic is real? |
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Posts: 17460 (07/11/07 7:04 AM) Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts |
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Flying Omelette |
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Posts: 17460 (07/11/07 7:12 AM) Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts |
The thing that's annoying about the "Wonder Emporium" is that we know they're using CGI to make the toys come to life, and we
know CGI is not magic. Before CGI, maybe there could've at least been some wonder as to how the effects were made if they didn't use
magic. Sort of like how Ebert couldn't figure out how they made Kermit ride the bicycle in the Muppet Movie, so his belief is that he actually did it on
his own.
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mallow |
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Posts: 42 (07/11/07 2:03 PM) |
There is real magic.... but movies don't portray that very well, for one thing there aren't any sound effects
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Bomberguy221 |
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Posts: 1941 (07/12/07 2:27 AM) Hit and away is my style! |
Well, I think the belief that there is a spiritual connection to our world - one that is beyond this life - gives people hope.
Not necessarily "magic," in all cases, but the belief in a higher governing power. Belief that change can happen and that everything can't be explained through our eyes alone. Like mallow, I'm not saying that this is being shown the right way with movies, but the effort is being made that faith can sometimes be right. |
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James FP |
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Posts: 2911 (07/12/07 10:22 AM) Schmendrick's
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Or all the Christmas specials that teach that there really is a Santa Claus.
One issue I have with the idea is that I've never seen anything that couldn't be explained. |
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da dick |
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Posts: 1734 (07/13/07 5:39 AM) and my bird can sing too! |
"the prestige" didn't tell me magic was real, it told me science is "real magic". and russian scientists are sexier than american ones.
and they have higher moral ground.
 "Birdies!"
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perothecat |
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Posts: 502 (07/16/07 10:14 AM) |
James FP wrote: Including Darunia dancing in your hallway and Sam Kinison living in your saltshaker?  "Alas, Horatio, I knew you well...now prepare for the long bomb!" |
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Flying Omelette |
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Posts: 17460 (01/20/08 9:33 PM) Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts |
Another thing that's great about this is that even a show like The Real Ghostbusters which deals with paranormal stuff still taught the idea that science
and rationality are better than superstition. It was addressed in the boghound episode when the legend was that the boghound could only be defeated by a
four-leaf clover, but Egon thought that was ridiculous and insisted they could catch the monster with their normal conventional methods.
On a related note, I always find it a joy to watch James Randi debunking phony psychics on YouTube. Also, There is real magic.... but movies don't portray that very well, for one thing there aren't any sound effectsSomeone really needs to start updating Quote Corner again with stuff like that.
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honestgamer |
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Posts: 312 (01/20/08 10:56 PM) |
Some movies will always teach that magic is real because it's fun to pretend that a fantasy is real. I write fantasy novels where the characters find that
magic is real... because if it wasn't there wouldn't be much of a story. It's just fun to pretend for a moment, then go back to the rational
world. I don't see any harm in it, myself.
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Be honest about your passion for games. Besides contributing user reviews, FAQs, cheats and other content, you can post in your free blog and on the community forums... or leave ratings for your favorite new, retro and import games from a list that numbers over 30,000! It's all free. It's all fun. It's all awesome! |
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CLOUDBOND007 |
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Posts: 10201 (01/20/08 11:06 PM) Lunitari Mage |
Only semi-related, but I'm tired of hearing again and again that if you're a good, very generous person, money and good things will always come to you.
Because every poor, starving person in the world must be a greedy satanist.
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 11009 (01/20/08 11:24 PM) The Fuzzy Physicist
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It's one thing to have a fantasy world where magic is manifestly real, everyone knows it is real, and it affects everything. Example, Lord of the Rings.
I'll even allow stories that supposedly take place in the real world, but it's established early that this is a variant fictional world where magic exists, and the rest of the story is about that magic (rather than whether it exists). Example, Harry Potter, Roald Dahl books. What we're talking about here are stories that take place in the real world, no one except maybe a couple of eccentrics believe in magic, and the POINT of the whole story is that magic is real, in this real world of ours. The entirety of literature is based on the idea that you can communicate truths through fiction. So, the point of The Wizard of Oz is that real life can be preferable to fantasy. The point of The Godfather Part II could be, "You can't always keep a family together." The stories we are talking about are those that have the point that, "Magic is really real -- in this real world we are used to, it is real". The harm in these stories is that they encourage magical thinking (eg., The Secret). |
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honestgamer |
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Posts: 312 (01/21/08 4:22 AM) |
How about urban fantasy, like Jim Butcher's stuff? I'm guessing you're okay with that, but it's not clear.
When I read fiction, I take it as make-believe (even if the setting is Chicago or my back yard). As long as something is marketed as fiction (or it's assumed), I'm okay with it. The minute you get into something that's trying to convince me of something and is documentary in nature or whatever, that's when I start to scoff. I've been told that my fiction is very good. Perhaps someday, I'll write something that is published (besides my Xlibris fantasy novel, I mean). When I do, I would hope that people don't assume my goal was to make some grand point. I can assure you that when I write, my goal is to entertain. If my belief system comes through the characters or whatever, it's not generally by conscious design. It's me saying "It would be neat if this guy was a butthead because that can cause conflict later on" or whatever. I'm not convinced a lot of the fiction that irritates you is intended to do anything more profound than entertain you. Themes might recommend themselves to you, such as in the case of Baum's work, but I'm not sure he put them in there on purpose.
http://www.HonestGamers.com/
Be honest about your passion for games. Besides contributing user reviews, FAQs, cheats and other content, you can post in your free blog and on the community forums... or leave ratings for your favorite new, retro and import games from a list that numbers over 30,000! It's all free. It's all fun. It's all awesome! |
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Flying Omelette |
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Posts: 17460 (01/21/08 7:32 AM) Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts |
CLOUDBOND007 wrote: That reminds me of the episode of Night Court where Bull was hit by lighting. He thought he heard God telling him "Give to the poor and thou shalt have treasures in heaven." So he gave away everything he owned. Then it turned out that what really heard was the maintenance man Art yelling to feed him more cable, "Give me more, I'll shout when it measures eleven".
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 11009 (01/21/08 10:31 AM) The Fuzzy Physicist
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There was a part in On Writing in which Stephen King talks about The Stand,
and he makes it seem like the point he was trying to make in The Stand was, we should all just be Christians and not
have technology.
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 11009 (01/21/08 12:20 PM) The Fuzzy Physicist
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Even the current xkcd is kinda related to this thread's topic:
The Data So Far: 
Alt tag: "But THIS guy, he might be for real!" Does anyone know anyone who believes in supernatural things? I know someone who claims to have seen a ghost and who believes as a fact to have been reincarnated. |
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Brigade Delbrack |
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Posts: 725 (01/21/08 1:45 PM) Electric Boogaloo |
All I know is that "Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium" is the worst title of a movie I've ever heard. There's nothing like creating a
mouthful of a title to appease an awkward rhyme.
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Flying Omelette |
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Posts: 17460 (01/21/08 2:19 PM) Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts |
Crawl and 1OOO wrote: Yes, I know someone who claims the exact same things. When I was younger and more naive, I may have almost believed her about the ghost, but one day we were
outside at night, she looked up and suddenly said, "I just saw a UFO!" That's when I began to think she was just making things like that up for
attention or reaction, or whatever. It also kind of annoyed me the way she continued to put "From Santa" on Christmas gifts. I mean, even if I could
somehow be naive enough to still believe in Santa Claus when I'm in my 20's, I can clearly tell that's your handwriting.
What we're talking about here are stories that take place in the real world, no one except maybe a couple of eccentrics believe in magic, and the POINT of the whole story is that magic is real, in this real world of ours.Yes, there's a huge difference between a fantasy environment in which magic, psychic powers, and other paranormal stuff happens to or is proven to exist and stories in which there's a single "skeptic" character who has to be taught the lesson that "magic is real".
Last Edited By: Flying Omelette
01/21/08 2:22 PM.
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honestgamer |
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Posts: 312 (01/21/08 5:29 PM) |
I should confess to not believing in ghosts and haunted houses, but my wife just eats that stuff up. And on Montel, he has that psychic come on all the time
and I just want to reach through the screen and strangle her. But again, my issue with those things is that they're claiming this supernatural stuff is
real, and I don't believe the haunted house reports are anything with jangled nerves. Nor do I believe in Sylvia whoever's supposed psychic gift. My
wife also like The Ghost Whisperer (I think that's what it's called) with Jennifer Love-Hewitt, which I can tolerate a little more because, well,
figure that one out for yourself. :-D
http://www.HonestGamers.com/
Be honest about your passion for games. Besides contributing user reviews, FAQs, cheats and other content, you can post in your free blog and on the community forums... or leave ratings for your favorite new, retro and import games from a list that numbers over 30,000! It's all free. It's all fun. It's all awesome! |
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 11009 (01/21/08 6:21 PM) The Fuzzy Physicist
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James Randi has specifically called Sylvia Brown (the Montel psychic) out to take his $1,000,000 challenge, and she has tried to worm her way out of it (by
claiming that the money isn't real, despite all kinds of proof, and Randi even allowing Montel himself to hold it in escrow). Supposedly, because Randi
hasn't been able to
#1 tempt high profile psychics into taking his challenge and #2 that the general public doesn't seem to think that their unwillingness to take the challenge is a strong indication that they're fakes he plans on discontinuing the challenge in a few years. The people who do try to take the challenge seem to mostly be people with mental disorders. I looked up some of the recent people to take the challenge. Probably the most hilarious claim was a woman who said she could cause people to involuntarily pee themselves through her powers, and if the person had emptied their bladder, God will fill it again so they could still pee. The debunking video was boring, though, because of course nothing happened. |
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TaroSH |
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Posts: 2221 (01/21/08 7:54 PM) I Ain't Afraid of No Ghost |
There was a video I watched in my psychology class about psychics, and there was some kind of test they asked psychics who claimed to see auras to take.
Somebody stood behind a wall that was maybe an inch taller than they were, and the psychic, was supposed to tell where they were by their aura. Of course, none
of the psychics would take the test.
Hell, some girl made up a test where the psychics put their hands through holes in a cardboard box and through some cloth, the girl put her hand under one of theirs', and they were supposed to determine, by "vibrations" or whatever, which of their hands the girl had her's under. The psychics got it right 50% of the time, if even that. |
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Posts: 11009 (01/21/08 9:14 PM) The Fuzzy Physicist
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Actually, Randi did get one psychic to take that aura test. There were ten screens, the psychic said there were people behind all ten, there were really only
four.
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da dick |
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Posts: 1734 (01/22/08 7:56 AM) and my bird can sing too! |
i did see a "ghost light" during an AVA camp, back in school. but it could have been some natural gas igniting for a split second over a basketball
court, or my eyesight is bad, and my eyesight is bad.
"How can we jump over our shadows when we no longer have one?How can we
pass out of the century (not to
speak of the millennium)if we do not make up our minds to put an end to it, engaged as we are in an indefinite work of mourning for all the incidents, ideologies and violence which have marked it?" - THE END OF THE MILLENNIUM OR THE COUNTDOWN , Jean Baudrillard. |
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James FP |
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Posts: 2911 (01/23/08 1:37 PM) Schmendrick's
Nose |
perothecat wrote: Government conspiracies are not magic, okay? |
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da dick |
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Posts: 1734 (01/24/08 12:14 AM) and my bird can sing too! |
no, they are evil!
"How can we jump over our shadows when we no longer have one?How can we
pass out of the century (not to
speak of the millennium)if we do not make up our minds to put an end to it, engaged as we are in an indefinite work of mourning for all the incidents, ideologies and violence which have marked it?" - THE END OF THE MILLENNIUM OR THE COUNTDOWN , Jean Baudrillard. |
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GasMaskMan |
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Posts: 41 (01/26/08 9:50 AM) |
Brigade Delbrack wrote: I know! It's like "Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo," but worse. At least "Bigalow" was actually a real surname to begin with. (Unless I'm mistaken, "Magorium" is not.) On the other hand, "Male Gigolo" is a redundant phrase. I'm not sure which title is worse.
Last Edited By: GasMaskMan
01/26/08 5:24 PM.
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MaskedSheik |
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Posts: 423 (01/26/08 2:35 PM) |
The trick is to stay the hell away from all movies with titles like that.
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honestgamer |
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Posts: 312 (01/27/08 3:45 AM) |
But then you'd miss the sight of the hot girl dipping into the fish tank and getting her top wet! Not that I like that part or... anything...
http://www.HonestGamers.com/
Be honest about your passion for games. Besides contributing user reviews, FAQs, cheats and other content, you can post in your free blog and on the community forums... or leave ratings for your favorite new, retro and import games from a list that numbers over 30,000! It's all free. It's all fun. It's all awesome! |
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da dick |
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Posts: 1734 (01/27/08 5:34 PM) and my bird can sing too! |
btw, that xkcd non-comic you used sucks. it's just plain lazy.
"How can we jump over our shadows when we no longer have one?How can we
pass out of the century (not to
speak of the millennium)if we do not make up our minds to put an end to it, engaged as we are in an indefinite work of mourning for all the incidents, ideologies and violence which have marked it?" - THE END OF THE MILLENNIUM OR THE COUNTDOWN , Jean Baudrillard. |
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Flying Omelette |
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Posts: 17460 (01/27/08 6:07 PM) Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts |
Actually, it's great.
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