boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs...c=19170063
One of the glitches there that I remember experiencing was after the boy falls during the introduction, the screen scrolls out of control until it gets out of the normal gameplay area and eventually freezes.
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CLOUDBOND007 |
Secret of Mana Mysteries and Glitches |
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It might seem a bit lame to just link to a topic on another board, but this one is pretty cool. Also forgive me if it's been posted before at some point... it's been around for a while.
boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs...c=19170063 One of the glitches there that I remember experiencing was after the boy falls during the introduction, the screen scrolls out of control until it gets out of the normal gameplay area and eventually freezes. |
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Flying Omelette |
Re: Secret of Mana Mysteries and Glitches | |||||
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IIRC, sometimes if you watch carefully, you can see how Secret of Mana is scrolling new locations into memory. When you leave an area and the screen fades to black, sometimes you can see it scroll just before it fades all the way out. Sometimes, you can leave the bottom of a screen, but it scrolls sideways.
Quote: Someone replied to this question saying it was an inconsistency because it was supposed to be explained in a prequel. Uh...wtf? It's not inconsistent. The opening story clearly tells of a past civilization that grew strong and powerful from using the power of Mana, but was destroyed when the gods were angered at the creation of the mana fortress. The subway is a remnant of that civilization. Same with the videos in the Mandala Temple. You don't need a prequel to explain that, it's all there in the game. Someone also mentioned that the videos talk about places that don't exist and wondered if they were planned places that were excised from the final version of the game. No, the reason thoes places don't exist is because they were destroyed. One of the videos even describes people witnessing the oncoming mana beast attack before it goes to static.
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Flying Omelette |
Re: Secret of Mana Mysteries and Glitches | |||||
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I double-checked this by going to the Mandala Temple and rewatching the videos. The only place that's mentioned that isn't in the game is Lorima, which was a town in Final Fantasy Adventure. But it says that Lorima launched missiles at the empire. Since the empire still exists and Lorima doesn't, the reasonable conclusion is that the empire retaliated (which it most certainly would have) and won.
Using this as evidence that the game was unfinished is just plain insane. It's more likely that it's meant to connect the world of Final Fantasy Adventure with Secret of Mana's world (at that moment, you realize they are one and the same) and also explain why all the places you visited there don't exist in this game (because the wars destroyed them.) I wouldn't doubt for a second that there were ideas for Secret of Mana that didn't make it into the final version of the game. I'm inclined to believe almost all games do (example: I was recently surprised to find two unused character designs in the ending sequence of Little Ninja Brothers). But I do not think that Lorima would have been part of the game either way, unless someone from Square specifically says it was planned. I'm reminded of how people made a huge deal over that emerald in the (excised) Hidden Palace Zone of Sonic 2 and that pillar in the museum of DK64, both of which turned out to be nothing, and confirmed to never have been intended for anything by people who worked on the games.
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CLOUDBOND007 |
Re: Secret of Mana Mysteries and Glitches | |||||
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One of the main reasons people seem to think Secret of Mana was cut down at the last minute is because it was apparently supposed to be on Nintendo and Sony's never launched CD system. It never felt rushed or like it was obviously supposed to be bigger to me, though.
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Flying Omelette |
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Yeah, it's a pretty frickin' huge game. It's a game I could definitely make a case for having a 5-act structure.
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KazuoSH |
Re: Secret of Mana Mysteries and Glitches | |||||
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Kind of relevent, kind of not; I still want to know what that sliding crate on the ship in SM64's Jolly Roger Bay is for.
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Flying Omelette |
Re: Secret of Mana Mysteries and Glitches | |||||
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My guess is that's just supposed to be an object that damages you when you touch it.
Maybe the way it slides back and forth was also meant as a physics demonstration.
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CRAWLand1000 |
Re: Secret of Mana Mysteries and Glitches | |||||
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My first thought when I saw that sliding box was that you were supposed to jump on it and from there to someplace else. I don't think you actually need to do so, though.
Was SoM really intended for the CD system? Because I thought that CD wasn't even planned to be released around that time. I think it was starting to be previewed around the time Star Fox was coming out, and both games were released in '93. "Without a foothold in the past, we cannot walk towards the future." -Vagrant Story |
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Flying Omelette |
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I had my doubts about that rumor, too, but I heard Ted Woolsey confirmed it in an interview, unless his memory is incorrect.
I still, however, stand by my above statements. There really isn't anything in that game that isn't explained somehow through the story that's already in there, with the single exception of the bizarre spinning object on the overworld map near Northtown. Especially the city beneath the sunken continent. The opening story says that an advanced civilization grew strong and thrived on the power of Mana, but it was destroyed after the creation of the Mana Fortress. And later the story explicitly says what's left of that civilization was sunk beneath the continent (no doubt, an Atlantis reference). Okay, there's a game script on GameFAQs I can use to prove this: From the intro: Using the power of Mana, a civilization had grown strong...In time, Mana was used to create the ultimate weapon: the Mana Fortress...This angered the gods. They sent their beasts to destroy the Fortress...A violent war rocked the world, and Mana seemed to disappear... Before all was lost, a hero with the Mana Sword smashed the Fortress...Though the civilization had been destroyed, the world was peaceful again. And then Jema, later, There's an ancient city under this Grand Palace. And Pecard's dialogue, I'm Pecard, caretaker of this lighthouse. To the northeast is a coral reef. Under it lies a sunken continent. The Mana Palace is really a switch that will refloat the continent! The power of the ancients must have been incredible! Heck, the Ancient City could even be Lorima. Edit - Actually, I located the new version of the topic and some people there did counter the Lost City claims with the same evidence I have. Thank goodness.
Last Edited By: Flying Omelette
08/28/07 5:04 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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TaroSH |
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Although, yes, the game is pretty big, I thought some gameplay things felt like something was missing. Like how the Moon Palace is just the switch,
and that's it. It also seemed like the game was rushing to get you to finish off all the palaces towards the end when they were being fired off one right
after the other compared to the first few which were hours apart.
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Flying Omelette |
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Yeah, but as I said before, I think the Moon Palace was just meant to be a little mystery. Maybe more was planned for it, but I wouldn't be surprised if
not. And is there really a need to keep dragging things out? One of the reasons things go faster is because you have Flammie. If you had to cannonball yourself
to the Lofty Mountains, then you'd probably have to finish the Dark Palace before you could cannonball yourself to the next location (remember how earlier
Cannon Travels limit where you can go at the moment), and then there's all the walking between them. Plus, the game is a little nonlinear at that point.
It's possible to do some things out of Sage Joch's suggested order. And the Ancient City and the Mana Fortress are both pretty long.
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Flying Omelette |
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A couple of other things:
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mobiusclimber |
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Posts: 73 (08/28/07 10:32 PM) |
i've come to the conclusion that the big wigs at square are pretty stupid, and i've conveniently started blaming everything on them. why else would we
not get seiken densetsu 3 and bahamat lagoon? why give us ff mystic quest and secret of evermore and think those will outsell ff5 and the two previously
mentioned? but i guess that's everyone's complaint, innit?
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Flying Omelette |
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I've heard a lot of negative about Seiken Densetsu 3 and Bahamut Lagoon from reputable sources, and I liked Mystic Quest and Secret of Evermore (even if somewhat-less than the other more-popular games of theirs), so I'm not really crying over that. MQ and SoE were better than SD3 and BL in at least one way and that was the music. It might've been more Nintendo's fault that the SNES didn't get an FF5 translation, but I don't really know for sure. Seems there's a
lot of "he said/she said" from that era and it's hard to tell what really was the truth.
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CLOUDBOND007 |
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I've heard a lot of negative about Seiken Densetsu 3 and Bahamut Lagoon from reputable sources,I was never able to get all the way through SD3 either time I played it. I know that's a common enough thing for me, but it's just not a spectacular game. Bahamut Lagoon also didn't appeal to me, but that could be because I'm not really into strategy RPG's. |
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Mystic Quest and Secret of Evermore also have better music than Final Fantasy 5. |
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mobiusclimber |
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Posts: 73 (08/30/07 7:32 PM) |
i enjoyed the little of of sd3 that i played but not enough to know if it would continue to be good. and haven't played bl, but the few friends i have that
have played it said they liked it, so i dunno. it's something i'd just have to try out myself. i didn't have fmq, but it's seriously not up to
final fantasy standards and i actual felt insulted playing it. it's just kind of... meh. really tho it's more a feeling of everything being dumbed down
for the u.s. starting w/ ff2/4j then leading into soe and ffmq, plus the lack of ff5 being released. but maybe it's b/c i didn't have an snes during
its actual lifetime, i got one after the ps1 was out for awhile (and n64 had already come out).
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Flying Omelette |
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There used to be a post on these forums that outlined all the problems with Bahamut Lagoon, but it was lost in the 2005 hacker attack. I haven't played it,
so I can't really say much about it. I have the soundtrack in SPC format and the only song I like is "Jojo and the God Dragons".
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mobiusclimber |
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Posts: 73 (09/03/07 4:03 PM) |
yeah but i honestly don't care for most early videogame music, that includes most of the games on the snes. nor would i use that to judge whether i'd
like a game or not. i dunno one way or the other about bahamut lagoon, i've never played it either. but i have to say (not to ruffle any more feathers that
i already have) that i don't agree w/ a lot of the "reviews" or views on games by many of the members here. i'm even still on the fence as
far as whether you and i have similar taste or not. (and i think that's what it really does come down to more than anything else. some games are not going
to be for everyone, but for people who like that certain kind of game and can appreciate the experience maybe even despite the games' flaws. look at
rhapsody. i could sit and list all the problems w/ that game but i LOVE it regardless. and it really is just a matter of taste.) so i'm probably not going
to know one way or the other about bahamut lagoon until i do play it.
sorry i know i can come off sounding like a jerk and i hope i'm not right now, it's difference of opinion, that's it. if i know that someone doesn't like a game that i love or they love a game that i don't like (especially if it's more than one game), then i can't really use their opinion on games that i haven't played to know how i'd feel about those games. it's like a movie like gone w/ the wind. i know lots of people like that film and i can kind of appreciate where they're coming from. but i don't like that movie at all. (or citizen kane or a dozen other "classics" tho that's not to say i don't like other movies that are considered "classics.") it's not a matter of they're wrong and i'm right, or i'm wrong and they're right. it's a difference in taste. |
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mobiusclimber |
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Posts: 73 (09/03/07 5:26 PM) |
sorry for double post: i just listened to two songs you have up from ffmq and WOW. i don't remember the soundtrack being LIKE THAT! the slap bass reminds
me of primus, but musically a lot different. i really liked those songs. i'm shocked and impressed. it doesn't change my general ill will towards mq,
but i will say that the music has now impressed me. (not sure why i dind't notice before, or if i did why i don't remember... tho the one song, i guess
the battle music... does sound familiar now that i've heard it again. this makes me think of lagoon: great opening theme but the game was pretty bad, imo.
and speaking of which, you wouldn't have any plans to put up the opening theme to lagoon would you? i checked and... no dice. i might have to try my hand
at getting it off a rom. i dunno if a soundtrack to that game ever came out but i've never seen or heard of one.)
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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(or citizen kane or a dozen other "classics" tho that's not to say i don't like other movies that are considered "classics.") it's not a matter of they're wrong and i'm right, or i'm wrong and they're right. it's a difference in taste.I think the people that like Citizen Kane are right and you are wrong. This sort of argument would only mean something to me if the person who didn't like Citizen Kane had otherwise impeccable taste. As is, maybe you should watch Citizen Kane a few more times and pay more attention. |
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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Okay, maybe I'm ruffling a few feathers with that. But...
#1. When people use the term "taste", it makes me think of how when you eat chocolate, everyone, even little kids, immediately know it's delicious. Or when you eat something rotten, you immediately spit it out. But movies and videogames are not something you purely react to in instinctive terms. There is an intellectual response. #2. Similarly, taste is not something we get when we are born, and that's it. Taste can be developed. This is even true for the real sense of taste (people speak of a "refined palate"). #3. Though taste might not be "objective", that's not a show stopper. Somehow, for artforms that have existed for hundreds of years, and have been debated and contemplated by smart people for hundreds of years, a very good culture has been built up. #4. And, yes, despite all that, people always disagree on individual things. I don't even know if the concept of "having the same taste" means anything, in that I doubt any two people have the same opinions on most things. I consider it uncommon for two people to agree 65% of the time on things in general (say, any movie or videogame chosen at random from a pool of thousands), and 80% of the time with things that are more important (a movie that one of them would have an extreme opinion on -- a 4/5 or 1/0 star movie) #5. But despite THAT, it is actually possible to UNDERSTAND why smart people have different opinions than you do. Again, taste and subjectivity are not mystical, magical things. People have reasons for their opinions, and smart people can back up those opinions. If people did not have reasons for having their opinions, but it just came down to them liking things because their taste was compatible with whatever they liked, there'd be no point in writing reviews that tried to explain what the reviewer thought. Reviews might as well just say, "I liked this game because I liked it." People can even change their minds over time, and like things they didn't used to, or vice versa. Sometimes that's because they see qualities in it that they missed at first but that were pointed out by others. |
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James FP |
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mobiusclimber wrote:1997 called. It wants its powers of argument/persuasion back. And if you seriously believe all of that, then why the fuck are you starting all of these arguments? You might as well accept that when you see something you don't agree with that it's "all just taste and opinion" and shut the hell up. |
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Crawl and 1OOO |
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To add one more comment about the review thing, I don't think the point of reviews should be simply to give recommendations or to act as a buying guide.
It is much more interesting if a review inspires thought or discussion on the game in question.
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mobiusclimber |
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Posts: 73 (09/05/07 2:32 PM) |
i guess all i'm really trying to say is that while it's possible to describe how you felt about certain things in a game, another person might not feel
the same way. this is particularly true in games that have obvious problems or whatever you want to call them. maybe a game has a bad translation but someone
enjoys that, or it isn't as big of a deal to them as it is to you. or a game is overly easy, but some people are more interested in the storyline and the
characters and don't really care (or will do things to make the game harder like not buy better equipment, speed through battles, skip battles so they
aren't at a higher level, etc).
and no i don't think reviews are just buying guides, but not every game is going to engender long debates or thoughtful discussions. but i guess i should just shut the hell up now. XP |
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Flying Omelette |
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James FP wrote: Thanks, James. It's an old joke, but it still made me laugh so hard I thought I was going to have to shut my office door after I read that. |
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DEATHAMSTER |
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I'm reminded of the time that GH64 kept picking on Magnus Crowe at the Game Pond and every time Magnus explained all his opinions with reasons and
examples, which whether or not I agreed with them I could at least respect them because he made it entirely clear why he felt the way he did and where he was
coming from, but GH64 still kept replying with the same generic bullshit things that Magnus had already refuted five posts ago, until finally Magnus told him
to "Fuck off". That caused GH64 to get pissed and go on a rampage in every topic complaining that Magnus should be banned. Deathspork tried to calm
him down by explaining that it was understandable that Magnus did that since he had already explained his opinions 20 times and just didn't feel like
saying it any more, but he just kept getting angrier. The bottom line was that he wanted everyone to agree with his vague arguments 100% of the time or else he
would just keep being a real pest about it until they did. Trouble is, following his logic was about as possible as following the Network Suit in "The
Great Forum Wars", as his opinions were often wishy-washy, the most blatant example was that he'd complain if anyone said anything negative about the
N64, but then he'd turn around and make posts saying how much he hated the system because it didn't have RPGs.
Funny how every few months or so we get a throwback like that, but at least they aren't as numerous as they once were. |
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DEATHAMSTER |
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