Visualization (and sensory weirdness)

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Crawl and 1OOO	Visualization (and sensory weirdness)	Lead	[-]
Posts: 15476 (11/25/08 3:05 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I read a couple of interesting things about visualization lately. I don't see anything when I close my eyes. This is an essay written by a person who is incapable of visualizing things when his eyes are closed. I didn't even know such a thing was possible. On the other hand, No one has a photographic memory. No one can look at something and, with their eyes closed, visualize it with the detail and accuracy of a photograph. (Yes, the article mentions Stephen Wiltshire, who featured in a video we probably posted at this board, who sketched a panoramic view of Rome after flying over it in a helicopter for a few minutes) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Last Edited By: Flying Omelette 03/26/09 8:58 AM. Edited 1 time.
Crawl and 1OOO		#1	[-]
Posts: 15476 (11/26/08 1:40 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This person can't even dream in images. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Seth Koopa		#2	[-]
Posts: 25 (11/27/08 1:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If I couldn't visualise things, I would be very unhappy. It's not very clear whether they're supposed to imagine this or 'see' this. I can 'see' turquoise things when I close my eyes.
Crawl and 1OOO		#3	[-]
Posts: 15476 (11/27/08 6:05 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think it's pretty clear they (especially the woman) are talking about an inability to imagine things visually.
Seth Koopa		#4	[-]
Posts: 25 (11/27/08 6:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Wow, that IS something. I'm glad I can imagine visually - I don't know how else you're supposed to imagine things (asides from words or sounds).
Flying Omelette		#5	[-]
Posts: 20777 (11/27/08 6:38 PM) But you had to have the BIIIIIG salad! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My mother used to say she couldn't visualize things. (Like, she said that if she closed her eyes, she couldn't picture what Dad looks like in her head.) But she would sometimes say things like that to be manipulative and that's what I suspect. I've fallen down, but I'll rise above this... rise above this doubt. www.flyingomelette.com
Crawl and 1OOO		#6	[-]
Posts: 15476 (11/27/08 8:45 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My mother would say that she would forget what we look like if she didn't see us in a while. But even assuming that's true, I don't think that's quite the same thing. I imagine that very few people could draw someone very well just by remembering what they look like. And for those that do, I'm not sure that they are necessarily copying what they see in their mind's eye, but are instead using construction techniques.
Crawl and 1OOO		#7	[-]
Posts: 15476 (12/02/08 1:54 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I guess this would suggest a poll, how good is everyone's recall with the various senses? I think it's fairly common to have perfect auditory recall (eg., being able to hear a symphony with full orchestration) in the moments between wake and sleep. I don't know how common it is, but I think I have a pretty good taste recall. I can often remember what something tastes like so strongly that it's almost like I'm eating it. I guess it's a little "ghostier" since the sensation is in my brain and not my tongue, but it's probably at least like I just ate it maybe 5 minutes ago and didn't eat or drink anything since. That's sort of an imagination thing as opposed to a memory thing. I can't remember the taste of everything I've ever eaten, certainly. But if I can remember, it's very vivid. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
SETZERtheGREAT		#8	[-]
Posts: 658 (12/03/08 1:55 PM) The Lone Gunman Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	On the other hand, No one has a photographic memory. No one can look at something and, with their eyes closed, visualize it with the detail and accuracy of a photograph. (Yes, the article mentions Stephen Wiltshire, who featured in a video we probably posted at this board, who sketched a panoramic view of Rome after flying over it in a helicopter for a few minutes) I heard about that some time ago, but before I did I never took it to literally mean that someone could reproduce an image photographically in their memory. I just always thought it meant they had a really good memory and could reasonably reconstruct the images in their mind. Better than I can, anyway. I once had someone accuse me of having a selective memory. I told him, everyone does. Your point? "People are to be respected regardless of position or class. This should always be remembered." - Saradin, Ogre Battle
Crawl and 1OOO		#9	[-]
Posts: 15476 (12/03/08 1:58 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I heard as an example of a photographic memory something like, you show a person a picture of a factory with a bunch of workers standing in a line by the machine, then take it away, and ask them, "How many workers were there?" And the person with the photographic memory would close their eyes and see the picture and count the workers in the picture in their mind and give a correct answer. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Flying Omelette		#10	[-]
Posts: 20777 (12/03/08 2:12 PM) But you had to have the BIIIIIG salad! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That's what I always thought "photographic memory" meant, too. I guess this would suggest a poll, how good is everyone's recall with the various senses? I don't really know. I can usually remember what something tasted like, even if I haven't eaten it in many years (like baked beans, my mother's homemade macaroni and cheese, most pork products) and that's what keeps me from trying them again. I can remember smells, too, but sometimes I have a hard time pinpointing them exactly. Like, I might smell something and think it smells familiar, but I have to think awhile before I can recall exactly what it smells like. I still remember the smell of the stagnant water on the school playground that used to make me feel really sick. I've fallen down, but I'll rise above this... rise above this doubt. www.flyingomelette.com
Crawl and 1OOO		#11	[-]
Posts: 15476 (12/03/08 4:06 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I was just thinking about that last night. I think ("think" just because there's no way to confirm the impression) that I can remember the taste of pork chops and holiday hams and pepperoni pizza that I ate years ago. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Crawl and 1OOO		#12	[-]
Posts: 15476 (03/03/09 11:26 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Memories related to the sense of taste being strong probably has an evolutionary basis. Being able to remember what foods made you sick when you ate them previously probably had a strong survival advantage for primitive man. I don't think it's understood, in evolutionary terms, where our appreciation for music comes from. I recently read an article on amusia which said that research suggests it did not develop as a result of our developing capacity for speech, which is one thing I might have guessed.
greybob		#13	[-]
Posts: 1205 (03/03/09 11:33 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm pretty good at remembering images and sounds, and especially information (mostly useless trivia :/ ) but smells and tastes I can't remember unless they're recent, or I've had them alot. One thing I think is interesting is that you can combine images and sounds in you heads to make new ones, but can anyone combine smells and tastes in their heads? I can't. I live on the internet.
Crawl and 1OOO		#14	[-]
Posts: 15476 (03/03/09 11:43 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think I can combine tastes in my head. I tried a few things and I came up with something, anyway. The first few things I tried to imagine were eating something, then drinking something, and having the tastes mix, which is something that happens often. Imagining things whose tastes would clash, like taking a bite of a hamburger, then a spoon of ice cream, and chewing it together, is a little harder. I can't smell things, so I can't consider that. I'm not sure how common it really is to be able to combine sounds in your head (accurately, at least). I haven't read anything about that in the general case, but other things I've read would make me guess it is rare.
greybob		#15	[-]
Posts: 1205 (03/04/09 12:23 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	By combining sounds, I didn't mean literally mixing sounds together to make new ones. An example of what I meant might be combining notes to make a melody. Another might be imagining someone's voice saying something they've never actually said, or how you "read" the voices of characters in a book. I live on the internet.
Flying Omelette		#16	[-]
Posts: 20777 (03/04/09 11:17 AM) But you had to have the BIIIIIG salad! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I can very easily imagine people saying things they've never said in their own voices. I can still even remember the voices of people I haven't seen or talked to in years, like my ex-boss from Canon and even my ex-boss from the job I had before that. One time (many years ago), I had a dream about an RAU cartoon and for some bizarre reason I have no idea why, whoever made the cartoon got Sherman Hemsley to voice Nucleo (even though that's not at all what I picture him sounding like). I could hear his voice very clearly in the dream, but since he was Nucleo and saying things only Nucleo would say, it's not like he was saying anything he would have said on The Jeffersons or any other show I've seen him on. As for combing smells and tastes...it doesn't seem to me like there are too many times in reality when I can smell more than one smell at once. It seems like the most dominant smell will always take over. An example of that is when the cats use their litterbox. Sometimes, the smell is really bad, and I start using the air freshener spray. But it takes awhile for the spray to overcome the cat poop smell and once it does, all I can smell is the spray. Even when cooking dinner, the meat usually gives off the strongest odor, so that's all I can smell. I can't smell the corn or any other side dishes that might be cooking, unless I get right up to them, at which point, I won't be able to smell the meat until I back away again. www.flyingomelette.com
Crawl and 1OOO		#17	[-]
Posts: 15476 (03/04/09 12:56 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I wonder how that works for cooking. Supposedly, some chefs use certain herbs purely for their odor. Anyway, I gotta wonder how well people really can imagine other people's voices. There's a part in Of Mice and Men at the end where Lenny is picturing George saying things to him, but the narrator is clear that in Lenny's head, George speaks in Lenny's voice. (I'm not really sure if mentally retarded people would have more of a difficulty with that than anyone else; it could have just been Steinbeck's license). The only real way to know, I think, is when people do imitations. When someone imitates Schwarzenegger, I don't think they even TRY to get his voice right, but just try to do as over-the-top an Austrian accent caricature as they can. That doesn't really prove anything, since apparently humor is more the goal than accuracy. Fred Armisen's imitation of Obama comes to mind as one that seems to try to be accurate. He does the mannerisms okay, and maybe the inflection, but his voice is too high. Obama's is deeper. So, is that because Armisen isn't really hearing Obama's voice in his head, and/or he's content to stick with his own vocal range? Or is it just because Obama's voice is too deep for Armisen to imitate with his own? "Of the three ways in which men think that they acquire a knowledge of things--authority, reasoning, and experience--only the last is effective and able to bring peace to the intellect." -Roger Bacon
Flying Omelette		#18	[-]
Posts: 20777 (03/04/09 1:25 PM) But you had to have the BIIIIIG salad! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, it's easier to hear a voice in your head than it is to accurately imitate it. I would have a difficult time imitating a lot of voices simply because mine doesn't sound anything like them and it would be nearly impossible to alter it as so. I actually have a rather deep voice for a female, but someone like Barry White would still be difficult to pull off. www.flyingomelette.com
Crawl and 1OOO		#19	[-]
Posts: 15476 (03/04/09 1:30 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Barry White would be difficult for a lot of men. "Of the three ways in which men think that they acquire a knowledge of things--authority, reasoning, and experience--only the last is effective and able to bring peace to the intellect." -Roger Bacon
Crawl and 1OOO		#20	[-]
Posts: 15476 (03/26/09 8:57 AM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	One thing that's weird about my own senses is that I have no sense of smell (anosmia) -- or at least it's so weak (hyposmia) it might as well not be there. I can't detect farts, scratch'n'sniff stickers, baked cookies, or for that matter any cooking food, flowers, body odor, gas... Once I was in highschool, and a teacher walked past and said to me while making a face, "You can really smell that gas." Either there was a leak, or a student left one of those bunsen burner hook ups open, or something. There was enough gas that the fire department was called, as I recall. Anyway, I never would have known on my own. I can't remember ever being able to smell anything. I don't know if I never could, or if might have been able to in infancy, lost the ability, and can't remember back that far. As far as I can tell, I have a satisfying sense of taste. I think I could pass some taste tests. I don't think, "Oh, no, I can only taste five (or however many) flavors!" Of course, even if I could, those basic flavors could appear in any combination and intensity, and texture adds another dimension. People with color vision don't despair that they can only really detect three basic types of color. On the other hand, there's no way for me to compare my taste to someone's who has smell. The one thing that makes me wonder if I truly have ansomia as opposed to hyposmia is that I can occasionally detect certain things, but only if they're very strong. The first time this ever happened to me, I was a little kid, maybe about 8, and I was hanging out at a big house I'd never been to before, or since; I don't remember any of the people there, or why I was there. Anyway, they had a large (maybe 10 gallon) container out they said had almost pure alcohol in it. And that it smelled terrible. I was skeptical (I wasn't really sure about smell back then). I put my head near it and took a whiff and it nearly knocked me out. One time I was cleaning something with acetone and a professor said "you can really smell that acetone." Actually, I couldn't. Later, however, I was cleaning something with acetone in an ultrasonic cleaner, and huge plumes of vapor were coming out of it. I did detect that. Similar thing with some strong acids -- if I take an open bottle of concentrated (like hydrochloric) acid out of the hood for a moment, I might detect it. And once, out of stupid curiosity, I put my nose to a bottle of bleach and inhaled, so I can detect that, too. But I believe that I would NOT notice if someone had recently cleaned the room I was in with bleach. Again, even then, it has to be strong. The thing about being able to detect these "odors" is that at least some of them are irritants, and they are detected really more through the sense of touch (but still in the nose, because the mucus membranes there are so sensitive -- in higher concentrations, bleach vapors could even irritate the eyes). After a brief amount of Googling this morning, I was unable to find any more information on this, and if my experiences could rule out or confirm anything, or if there were any other experiments I could perform. Last Edited By: Flying Omelette 03/26/09 9:05 AM. Edited 1 times.

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Visualization (and sensory weirdness)

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