Difficulty Settings

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Captain Ladd Spencer	Difficulty Settings	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1611 (07/30/08 5:28 PM) Behold the many uses of my amazing BIONIC ARM! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Off the top of my head, the top three ways people defend a game being easy are: 1. It's meant for kids! 2. Collect all the useless trinkets, beat some side quest that's harder than the rest of the game combined, beat it in one life, or some other ridiculous arbitrary optional crap! 3. Play on a higher difficulty setting! FO recently debunked #1, and quite nicely I might add. #2 has been debunked in bits and pieces in FO's Lufia 2 review, the random thoughts on Aria of Sorrow Crawl had on his main page, and my LEGO Star Wars snippet of my overrated games article. Let's talk about #3. With a few exceptions, say Goldeneye adding new objectives on higher difficulty settings, or Power Blade adding recoil, all upping the difficulty does is increase the enemies' HP and the amount of damage they do. For example, if I played through Normal on God of War and thought it was easy, somebody might say "play on Spartan". Now, I did play on Spartan my first go through, and it was mind-numbingly tedious. Also, if you've already played through a game, you've already learned all, or at least many of the tricks, which might be why I thought MDK2: Armageddon on Hard was easier than on the Dreamcast. A higher difficulty setting probably isn't going to offer anything new, especially if all it does is make enemies take longer to kill. Last Edited By: Captain Ladd Spencer 07/30/08 5:32 PM. Edited 1 time.
Crawl and 1OOO		#1	[-]
Posts: 11759 (07/30/08 6:47 PM) The Fuzzy Physicist Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	We've talked about #3 before, too. -The first time you play a game forms your first impression. First impressions are important. They shouldn't be bad on the assumption that people will continue to play games that aren't good because they have infinite attention spans. -Sometimes those "first impressions" are LONG impressions. Valkyrie Profile has difficulty levels. Does it make sense for an RPG to have difficulty levels? Who really wants to restart a game on a higher difficulty level after playing it for over 10 hours and not enjoying it? -This might seem superficial, but fuck it. One reason people play games is to see what comes next. This can be a motivation to keep playing when you're otherwise bored, frustrated, or even totally entertained but could be doing something else (eg., chores). After you've beaten a game, you've already seen it all (of course, this complaint is forestalled in case of games that don't let you beat them on easy -- eg., Thunder Force V) -It's a "please all, please none" situation. Some people like easy games and some people like challenging games. One game is not gonna satisfy both desires, anymore than a three handkerchief chick drama is gonna appeal to those who want a gory zombie sleeze-o-rama. And tacking an alternate ending on the DVD of the first movie is still not gonna make it appeal to people who want the second movie, just like taking Rescue Rangers and giving the enemies more hit points is not gonna turn it into Castlevania III. Which brings me to another point. I've said that a game should be "challenging", and I think that's the right word to use, as opposed to "hard". Something that's hard could be hard because it's tedious, whereas "challenging" sort of carries the connotation that it's hard for good reasons. Last Edited By: Flying Omelette 07/30/08 11:33 PM. Edited 1 times.
Captain Ladd Spencer		#2	[-]
Posts: 1611 (07/30/08 6:54 PM) Behold the many uses of my amazing BIONIC ARM! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	We've talked about #3 before, too. Huh, which topic was it?
Crawl and 1OOO		#3	[-]
Posts: 11759 (07/30/08 11:32 PM) The Fuzzy Physicist Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Maybe not specifically enough. I made some of the points I made in my reply before, but, thinking about it, my first three bulleted points actually could be used to address almost ANY excuses for a game being too easy, not just "play on a higher difficulty level!". Here's an old post on difficulty levels but I didn't come out with too strong an opinion on it at that time because I was still seeing what other people thought on the issue.
Crawl and 1OOO		#4	[-]
Posts: 11759 (07/31/08 9:22 AM) The Fuzzy Physicist Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	More rebuttals: -WHICH difficulty level are you supposed to play on, anyway? I might want a challenging game, but I also want to be able to enjoy it right away and get accustomed to the controls as soon as possible. So, is it okay to start on a lower level for the latter purpose, or are the lower levels for blowing through the game without learning anything about it? Since people disagree about what the ultimate difficulty of a videogame should be, it's not surprise they also disagree what purpose difficulty levels should serve. Also, in a game without difficulty levels, both goals are accomplished with a difficulty curve. -Difficulty levels water down what a game IS. The difficulty of some games is a fundamental part of what they are. It means something to have beaten Punch-Out!! Does it mean anything to have beaten God of War? Another issue is that difficulty levels often don't really make games challenging. Aria of Sorrow and River City Ransom are two games that have difficulty levels, but even on "hard" are still easy. So, when someone tells you to play a game like that on hard, what do they mean? a) "I honestly think you'll enjoy the game if you play it that way." b) "I like easy games so I never thought it was too easy or even bothered to play on hard myself, but I'll still recommend it for you, because, I don't know, worth a shot." c) "I don't like it when people complain about games, so I'll do anything I can to either discredit your opinion, or to keep you from allowing you to have your opinion for as long as possible by demanding you do more and more things with a game."
Rushifell		#5	[-]
Posts: 655 (07/31/08 12:53 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	the only real purpose i see a harder difficulty level serving is if you really enjoy the game and want to keep replaying it. it gives you something more to do with the game so you're not just playing the exact same thing always. i think some games have too many difficulty levels. is there really much difference between 2, 3 and 4 on fighting games that have like 10 settings? I think an easy, normal, and hard is substantial enough. if a game has more than one setting i'll usually play it on the default setting first. unless it defaults to the easiest one than i might put it on the middle level. R U $ h 1 F 3 \|\|
abaxa		#6	[-]
Posts: 36 (08/01/08 2:35 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think far too many people worry too much about difficulty and confuse it with challenge. I see this as stemming from wanting something to brag and boast about to friends. A challenging game requires some creative thinking and trial and error to beat. A difficult game does the same and also requires plenty of luck and a good memory. A difficult game easily crosses the line between challenge and angry god throwing lightning bolts arbitrarily. Anyone who wants to play a game that took all the nasty, difficult things from 8 and 16 bit games, threw away the rest, and smushed the result into a sadistic nightmare can always download I Wanna Be The Guy (a.k.a The Crusher of Souls). Games are made to make their developers money. If a game is uber-hard that reputation will spread fast and will impact how many units are sold. There will always be a niche market for difficult games - otherwise bullet hells would have gone the way of the dodo by now - but that's not how you become a commercial success. Nobody likes beating their head against a brick wall. If I enjoy a game and want to replay it for more challenge but the game doesn't offer a higher difficulty setting I'll just set up my own challenge. For instance during my spare time I'm working on a hard replay in X-Men Legends 2 using only Jean Grey. If I wanted to up the stakes I could try a Colossus run. Challenge in a game is a relative thing. I've spent a good portion of my life playing tactical simulation games. If you were to sit me down next to someone who had never played a game like that before and we were both playing a new game of that genre that neither of us had seen before I'd have an immediate advantage over them based purely on my previous experiences. I'm used to thinking about positioning, range, and other factors on the go. On the flip side I haven't played any fighting games since Street Fighter 2 and Guilty Gear. If my hypothetical rival and I switch to a fighting game and they've kept up where I haven't the advantage shifts to them. This doesn't even get into difficulty factors that are biological. What is a deaf player supposed to do in a game where audio cues are critical? With trial and error they'll learn to overcome but I don't envy the extra work it would take. What is a color blind player expected to do when color variation becomes critical? It's very late and I have more to say but my thoughts are falling apart. I won't be home Friday so hopefully I can continue on Saturday. On a final note I just want to say that I am for variable difficulty levels in genres where it is appropriate: fighting, shooter, beat-'em-up, platforming, and something I'm forgetting at the moment. ------------------ "Nevertheless, a rule is a rule. We can't go about making exceptions to these rules just because they're stupid. We can't even use a case-by-case basis to see if the intent of the (stupid) rule doesn't apply to this particular book. No, no, a thousand times no! We must have iron-clad, meaningless rules, and we must follow them to the letter!!! Otherwise, anarchy will result." --Dadof3, Snopes messageboard --Well of course anarchy will result! Duh, that's what the dancing chickens are for. My YouTube page.
Crawl and 1OOO		#7	[-]
Posts: 11759 (08/01/08 7:49 AM) The Fuzzy Physicist Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Almost none of that post had anything to do with difficulty settings. How did you pick what genres are appropriate for difficulty settings? Especially platformers. When I think of classic platformers (eg., Super Mario Bros. 3), they traditionally did NOT have difficulty settings.
honestgamer		#8	[-]
Posts: 319 (08/02/08 4:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	When it comes to difficulty settings, I will tend to play on what the game sets as its default level. I view anything harder or easier as an accomodation for other types of players. Personally, I don't generally enjoy the most challenging difficulty levels in games, even easier ones like DuckTales for NES. I tend to enjoy myself on the default level and maybe replay that a few times if the game is a favorite classic, or never touch the game again if it isn't (I play a LOT of games). There definitely is a cry among some of my online acquaintances for games to be mercilessly difficult, and I privately scowl every time they go off on how Devil May Cry on its toughest settings is too much of a walk in the park or whatever. I don't play games for the sole purpose of being challenged. I play them for the experience. While it's true that I prefer my RPGs to be challenging, that's only because for me the RPG is all about the challenge of traveling through a barbaric and expansive world. That's part of what attracts me to the genre. Do multiple difficulty settings help games? I would say that they do, just because they're one more option for some gamers (even if I don't take advantage of said option myself). Does a game's willingness to supply post-game challenges of an extreme nature help? Yes, but you'll never get a proponent of brutally relentless games to admit it. They want the whole game to be a challenge so that they can lord it over everyone else when they breeze through things due to a higher tolerance to cheapness. I agree with Crawl that higher difficulty levels often amount to enemies with higher health meters. Sometimes, they also mean more enemies or bullets. But they don't fundamentally change the way a game should be played, not usually. They just make it cheaper and (for me) less fun. http://www.HonestGamers.com/ Be honest about your passion for games. Besides contributing user reviews, FAQs, cheats and other content, you can post in your free blog and on the community forums... or leave ratings for your favorite new, retro and import games from a list that numbers over 30,000! It's all free. It's all fun. It's all awesome!
Psycho Penguin		#9	[-]
Posts: 303 (08/02/08 4:55 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Does it make sense for an RPG to have difficulty levels? Who really wants to restart a game on a higher difficulty level after playing it for over 10 hours and not enjoying it?" Yes, but I think a harder difficulty should be unlocked after completing the normal game in RPG situations. My FAQs and Reviews Proud Mac User!
Crawl and 1OOO		#10	[-]
Posts: 11759 (08/04/08 5:51 PM) The Fuzzy Physicist Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There is a big difference between 2nd quests and difficulty levels. I can name a couple of games I thought did difficulty levels well: R-Type Delta and Street Fighter 2. To elaborate on Street Fighter 2 (since it was earlier mentioned that fighting games don't need those difficulty levels) -- I guess for very short games in general (not just SF2), it's unlikely that a single playthrough would be a satisfying experience. It must be difficult to have a full difficulty curve in only 12 short fights. So, the difficulty curve is in beating 12 fights on the various difficulty levels. But there were milestones in my experiences of playing through the difficulty levels. For instance, when playing with Ryu, I could not beat Chun Li on level 4 until I became competent enough at the dragon punch to be able to fire it off at will. There was incentive to play on different levels: Levels 1-3 had no ending at all, levels 6+ added a credit sequence, and level 8 had a final ending graphic. Also, there was a difficulty curve from levels 1->8. That might sound obvious, but it's not true for all games with 8 difficulty levels, or all fighting games. I don't think any fighting game I've played since Street Fighter 2 (like Street Fighter Alpha 3 or Soul Calibur) that I beat on normal really took much extra effort to beat on the highest setting. See how your opinion ruined Christmas for everyone!
honestgamer		#11	[-]
Posts: 319 (08/04/08 6:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Have you played the recent King of Fighter games? I see a pretty big difference between the difficulty settings in something like, say... King of Fighters XI. http://www.HonestGamers.com/ Be honest about your passion for games. Besides contributing user reviews, FAQs, cheats and other content, you can post in your free blog and on the community forums... or leave ratings for your favorite new, retro and import games from a list that numbers over 30,000! It's all free. It's all fun. It's all awesome!
Psycho Penguin		#12	[-]
Posts: 303 (08/05/08 2:47 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"There is a big difference between 2nd quests and difficulty levels. " True. My point was that there should be difficulty levels after you beat the game on its "normal" difficulty, basically. Some RPGs do it and it can add to the replay value. My FAQs and Reviews Proud Mac User!

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