Wall-E

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Bomberguy221

Wall-E

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Posts: 1948

(06/28/08 5:44 AM)

Hit and away is my style!

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Well, I just typed up a full review of this movie for 30 minutes, only to have it deleted by Yuku. HATE HATE HATE!!!

...6 out of 10. It's got an absolutely stellar beginning, hits an emotional high halfway through that could have made this one of the best Pixar films to date, then begins a slow, painful descent into boredom and blandness.

Oh yeah, and Disney still hates President Bush. Thinly-veiled political messages abound, especially right after that emotional high.

Flying Omelette

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Posts: 17476

(06/28/08 6:30 AM)

Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts

I don't know about this one. The ads make it look very childish and you think they could have tried a little harder to come up with a robot design that does NOT look like such an obvious cross between Johnny-5 and R.O.B.?

Think of what you're saying,
You can get it wrong
And still you think that it's all right.
Think of what I'm saying,
We can work it out
And get it straight or say good night.

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God, I know I'm one

Crawl and 1OOO

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Posts: 11032

(06/28/08 8:53 AM)

The Fuzzy Physicist
Administrator

I think the robot's just supposed to be cute, which might cause it to end up seeming childish.

TWEETER911

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Posts: 4905

(06/28/08 4:21 PM)

Phantom King

Told you it'd stink, bro!
>_>

S-G: "Goood morning! How're you?"
Kunagi: "Huh? Didn't I kill you?"
S-G: "NOPE! Nice try though."
Kunagi: "Curses."

Musings of a bird

Crawl and 1OOO

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Posts: 11032

(06/28/08 7:15 PM)

The Fuzzy Physicist
Administrator

6/10 is pretty good.

Bomberguy221

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Posts: 1948

(06/29/08 3:03 AM)

Hit and away is my style!

Crawl and 1OOO wrote:
6/10 is pretty good.

Oh yeah. I'm not one of those "7.5 is average" people. I thought, despite the flaws of the latter half of the movie, this was a film Pixar shouldn't be totally ashamed of. I've seen FAR worse animated stuff than this. My mom said she thought the first half was boring and didn't have a lot of direction, but it's in that first half that the funniest stuff happens and what makes this movie one I don't regret seeing.

As for the cuteness factor, the creators said in one of those Disney interview things that he was going for cute. That's one thing that makes Wall-E so likable - visual appeal and ability to communicate very simple emotions and thoughts. When Pixar was having the robots learn to do different things through basic action (often postponing their main "directives"), it was one of the best parts of the film. A lot of the things Wall-E and other robots do make you ask what they're trying to do. When you figure it out, it's funny and even a bit rewarding.

I mention the middle because it's where two major things occur. First is the emotional high, where the main plot involving Wall-E comes to a climax. This should have been 75% through the film, not smack dab in the middle. When it happens, it means we're all waiting for the conclusion, which is a good 50 minutes away.

The other thing is the political stuff that left a bitter taste in my mouth. The film beforehand implied a lot about our culture. Key word: implied. When they brought out the mastermind behind the problems with humans, they weren't implying so much as they were outwardly stating. Perhaps I find politics in movies too patronizing; the opening of the third Pirates of the Caribbean put me on unsteady ground with the movie from the get-go, even though the moment was brief.

It's that last half that drops it from a potential 8 to 6, and it's hard to say how they could have improved it. They needed more of those moments mentioned in the cuteness paragraph to make it feel like we didn't lose Wall-E to the sinister things occuring around him. There's no real cute robot interaction until the very end, and it's quite a dry spell to get through. After all, it's the strength of the movie and it's one of the reasons a lot of people will see this movie. The things that happened near the end needed to happen because the "Earth" plot demanded it, so I don't want to say it should have ended after 45 minutes. If anything, they should have mixed in some more enjoyable scenes and extended it for another 10 minutes.

I want to see a Wall-E mini-movie. I like the main characters and hope that they don't discontinue this character. I could easily watch another 30 minutes of Wall-E poking and prodding around a junk heap. It was just that fun to watch.

---

Oh, and since it's worth mention, the short film that Pixar traditionally does at the start of the movie was pretty good. "Presto" deserves the praise it gets. Wall-E does, too, but not as much.

Crawl and 1OOO

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Posts: 11032

(06/30/08 11:22 PM)

The Fuzzy Physicist
Administrator

It sounds to me like this movie is shooting fish in a barrel with its message.

"It's not good to be so fat that you need to use the little cart to get around at Wal Mart."

Well, great. That's true, but it's easy to point out problems, harder to find solutions. What's another problem that this movie points out? That people consume too much and make too much junk? That's great coming from Disney. It's not like they're selling Wall-E action figures.

Flying Omelette

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Posts: 17476

(07/01/08 6:35 AM)

Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts

Crawl and 1OOO wrote:
"It's not good to be so fat that you need to use the little cart to get around at Wal Mart."

You know, I think I'll take Wall-E's message to heart. Instead of spending 2 hours sitting on my butt in the theater watching Wall-E, I'll spend that two hours exercising.

Think of what you're saying,
You can get it wrong
And still you think that it's all right.
Think of what I'm saying,
We can work it out
And get it straight or say good night.

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God, I know I'm one

Flying Omelette

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Posts: 17476

(07/01/08 7:13 AM)

Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts

Another thing that's great is the way some reviews are praising Disney for having the "guts" (or "balls") to produce this movie considering its moral.

Of course! It couldn't possibly be because Disney and Pixar have such massive egos that they feel they're exempt from their own movie's moral. Or that Disney doesn't even really care about the moral, but only the money the movie and its merchandise will make.

Think of what you're saying,
You can get it wrong
And still you think that it's all right.
Think of what I'm saying,
We can work it out
And get it straight or say good night.

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God, I know I'm one

Last Edited By: Flying Omelette 07/01/08 7:18 AM. Edited 1 times.

ACC KAIN

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Posts: 734

(07/01/08 12:54 PM)

Band on the Run

I think I'd rather see Kung Fu Panda, all things considered.

"No one can withstand the power of KAIN"

CRAWLand1000

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Posts: 3545

(07/01/08 1:29 PM)

The Fuzzy Physicist
Administrator

Yeah, I first thought I might have wanted to see Wall E, because the robot looked cute, but the more I read about it, the more I'm sure I'll dislike it.

It's like with videogame reviews. You can't just read them and take their recommendations at face value. You can toss all the shit about how "beautiful" or "lyrical" or whatever it is in the crapper. You need to read between the lines to get at the real substance. Even POSITIVE reviews give me a queasy feeling.

From the Filthy Critic's 4/5 review:

And the whole movie is a parable about our increasingly convenience-oriented society.
Maybe fat people will be offended because it shows fat people acting fat. Fuck them. And fuck anyone who doesn't like the message that you can consume yourself into oblivion. First, that's not a political sentiment; it's been politicized by assholes with political agendas, mostly those who want your support in exchange for their assurance you can be as big a pig as you want and it'll never affect anything. Second, if you can't enjoy incredibly well-made movies just because they don't share your opinions, you're a fucking douche.

Tell you what. I'll pay money to hear other people's opinions when they pay me money to hear mine.

"Without a foothold in the past, we cannot walk towards the future."
-Vagrant Story

Flying Omelette

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Posts: 17476

(07/05/08 9:14 PM)

Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts

ACC KAIN wrote:
I think I'd rather see Kung Fu Panda, all things considered.

Saw it today. It was okay, but it had some glaring flaws that are present in a lot of animated fare and just movies in general these days that keep it from being great.

#1. I found it too easy to sympathize with the villain. If I worked hard all my life for something, and was turned down for some stupid reason like, "I sense darkness in you", I would be pretty damn pissed, too. Don't we all have good and bad in us anyway? It would have been better if the villain could have learned the movie's lesson in the end, too. In fact, I think if a story like this had been told from the villain's perspective, it would've been a LOT more interesting. (I also love how you can be immobilized for 20 years and as soon as you're set free, you're immediately in as good a shape as you were 20 years ago. Even Kill Bill addressed that issue more realistically.)

#2. I've seen some reviews complain that the "Fearsome Five" (or whatever they were called) aren't really fleshed out as characters and are just sort of "there". I totally agree with that. One of them (Monkey) is voiced by Jackie Chan, but he has so few lines there's no way I would've ever known that without seeing the credits. One way in which Cars was superior in this matter is that Lightning McQueen had something to learn from everybody. Panda really only learns from the Master, which makes the Fearsome Five superfluous (especially since they literally don't do anything towards the final outcome).

#3. I'm a little unclear as to how the villagers knew that a random explosion meant that the Panda had won.

Think of what you're saying,
You can get it wrong
And still you think that it's all right.
Think of what I'm saying,
We can work it out
And get it straight or say good night.

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God, I know I'm one

Last Edited By: Flying Omelette 07/05/08 9:21 PM. Edited 2 times.

Flying Omelette

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Posts: 17476

(07/06/08 1:23 PM)

Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts

Another thing that makes no sense is that...the Master says it was a mistake to have trained the villain to be the Dragon Warrior...so then he does it again for 5 more people (6 including the Panda?) Huh?

Think of what you're saying,
You can get it wrong
And still you think that it's all right.
Think of what I'm saying,
We can work it out
And get it straight or say good night.

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God, I know I'm one

Flying Omelette

[-]

Posts: 17476

(07/07/08 7:12 AM)

Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts

Back to Wall-E...

Later, unencumbered by clumsy spacesuits, Wall·E and Eve can rapturously soar around each other in space with dizzying speed and grace. One recurring motif of this film is dancing: at one time during their first, clumsy courtship, Wall·E tries to teach Eve to dance like the people in Hello, Dolly, and a desire to dance in the manner of ancient humans shown in computer images is one factor motivating the ship's captain to revolt against his robot master. But the dazzling pirouettes of Wall·E and Eve in space constitute a form of dancing obviously beyond the abilities of any human performers. And even within the spaceship, one is struck by the way that the people consistently seem awkward and constrained, while the robots freely dart about with artful abandon;

#1. One of these days, I'm going to write a story with a subtext about how dancing is really not all that important.

#2. A lot of movies teach that dancing is great. Dancing, much like figure skating, is largely considered a "gay" thing. I'm beginning to think there's a greater metaphor at work here. I'm getting this crazy idea that a lot of movie writers must be gay and this is their way of getting across the message that being gay is great. You would think that with as many gay people that there are in Hollywood that they'd have a greater influence over politics concerning them (ie, making gay marriages legal).

#3. Holy shit! This movie is Harrison Bergeron!

Think of what you're saying,
You can get it wrong
And still you think that it's all right.
Think of what I'm saying,
We can work it out
And get it straight or say good night.

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God, I know I'm one

Last Edited By: Flying Omelette 07/07/08 7:22 AM. Edited 2 times.

Crawl and 1OOO

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Posts: 11032

(07/07/08 8:05 AM)

The Fuzzy Physicist
Administrator

Gay marriage is legal in California.

ACC KAIN

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Posts: 734

(07/07/08 12:49 PM)

Band on the Run

Flying Omelette wrote:
#2. I've seen some reviews complain that the "Fearsome Five" (or whatever they were called) aren't really fleshed out as characters and are just sort of "there". I totally agree with that. One of them (Monkey) is voiced by Jackie Chan, but he has so few lines there's no way I would've ever known that without seeing the credits. One way in which Cars was superior in this matter is that Lightning McQueen had something to learn from everybody. Panda really only learns from the Master, which makes the Fearsome Five superfluous (especially since they literally don't do anything towards the final outcome).

I saw Kung Fu Panda over the weekend, too, and this was my biggest complaint with the movie, too. I guess the moral is that you don't have to work hard at something all your life so long as you believe what you do is good enough anyway. Unfortunately, that won't win you any gold medals at the olympics.

"No one can withstand the power of KAIN"

Forum Jackass

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Posts: 101

(07/07/08 1:20 PM)

Gay marriage is legal in California.

But not everywhere. I recently saw an episode of The Simpsons where Lisa takes up ballet and ends up hating it and chastising the profession for pushing women too hard. I don't completely agree with that episode's morality, either (mainly because ballet is no more guilty of pushing women too hard than any other profession - even where I work, almost every woman I know smokes). But it still sort of illustrates my point that dancing is, at best, a profession. You don't see movies that teach how solving quadratic equations is great. Do people who write these stories truly believe that everyone should be a dancer and find happiness in dancing? Or is it a metaphor for something else?

Think about Happy Feet. The idea is that all the penguins like to sing and one wants to dance. But aren't those two professions sort of arbitrary? Couldn't they be switched around and the idea remain the same? I'd say yes, unless singing is a metaphor for something and dancing is for another...

I saw Kung Fu Panda over the weekend, too, and this was my biggest complaint with the movie, too. I guess the moral is that you don't have to work hard at something all your life so long as you believe what you do is good enough anyway. Unfortunately, that won't win you any gold medals at the olympics.

Well, it's a better moral than in The Incredibles where the message is that you HAVE to be better than others in some way to be special. The problem with Kung Fu Panda is that it's executed poorly. By only having the Panda learn that moral and by not having the other characters play any role in the movie's final outcome, the message is still that only the Panda was special. That's why I felt it could've been better if the villain had learned the moral, too.

Some of these animated movies are entertaining in many ways, but it's frustrating that they still keep falling victim to certain cliches that really should've been dead and gone decades ago. I don't even feel it'd be too particularly difficult to avoid them. Writers seem to be on autopilot and sometimes I wonder if they even realize what they're doing (parts of The Spiderwick Chronicles made me feel that way.)

Oh my God, they found Tom.

Bomberguy221

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Posts: 1948

(07/07/08 5:16 PM)

Hit and away is my style!

Hmph, and I thought the topic turning into a pseudo-Kung Fu Panda conversation was an odd turn.

I don't see the "Hello, Dolly" thing as an attempt to make the movie pro-gay (which, yes, liberal Hollywood is doing to a lot of movies). I just saw it as an explanation of Wall-E's concepts of love and romance. I mean, if these were real people and not robots falling in love, the idea that Wall-E would go so head-over-heels for each other in a "love at first sight" deal seems difficult to believe (unless it's an old movie). But because his concepts of love and companionship are so hard-wired into him from that movie, the only human examples he has outside of advertising holograms, it's no surprise he falls in love with the first functioning robot he sees. It's also no surprise he attempts to woo Eve with dancing because that's the ONLY concept of love he knows.

If the only surviving movie he had was a porno, Wall-E would be wooing Eve in a very different way. And the movie would lose its PG rating.

Do people who write these stories truly believe that everyone should be a dancer and find happiness in dancing? Or is it a metaphor for something else?
[...]
But aren't those two professions [singing and dancing] sort of arbitrary? Couldn't they be switched around and the idea remain the same? I'd say yes, unless singing is a metaphor for something and dancing is for another...

Is there any other expression of humanity that can be visually displayed with some degree of interest? A person solving quadratic equations isn't making the best use of the medium, noble as the pursuit may be. Dancing and music is effective because it makes use of movie strengths - a motion picture synched with sound. That's why it's so prominent. If film has been pushing a gay agenda with dance, it's been pushing it for a very, very long time.

Yes, dancing is a profession for a lot of people. But it's also a way we connect as humans without words. Deny as we might, people have been going to sock hops, discos, clubs, and ballrooms for decades. It's culture.

And with Happy Feet, it's harder for me to buy a character who has a singing defect in a society of dancers. Dancing isn't quite as effective without music. There's an indication of co-dependence rather than superiority of music and dance. Music can function without dance, but it's not as enjoyable as it could be (which is why "Boogie Wonderland" is given such a huge stage, since that's the first song that Mumble dances to). Dance can't function well without music.

I think there is a larger number of films with homosexual undertones or actors, but I don't quite buy dancing as a metaphor for these things. It's been around too long for it to be "corrupting" movies.

Flying Omelette

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Posts: 17476

(07/07/08 5:44 PM)

Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts

I didn't say it was corrupting movies. I just suspect that's why it's in so many movies.

I mean, if these were real people and not robots falling in love, the idea that Wall-E would go so head-over-heels for each other in a "love at first sight" deal seems difficult to believe (unless it's an old movie). But because his concepts of love and companionship are so hard-wired into him from that movie, the only human examples he has outside of advertising holograms, it's no surprise he falls in love with the first functioning robot he sees. It's also no surprise he attempts to woo Eve with dancing because that's the ONLY concept of love he knows.

Yes, but someone on the writing level made a conscious effort to specifically choose dancing. They could have made the video he watches be about something else.

There do exist people who do not care about dancing. Just because people go to dance clubs, that doesn't mean dancing should be pushed as the greatest expression of emotion in the world or that movies should have the moral that everyone should be a dancer. If the moral of Wall-E is "don't get fat because you won't be able to dance like Wall-E and Eve", then I say screw'em.

And with Happy Feet, it's harder for me to buy a character who has a singing defect in a society of dancers.

Anybody who has functioning legs can dance, but singing is something that's much harder to do well.

Think of what you're saying,
You can get it wrong
And still you think that it's all right.
Think of what I'm saying,
We can work it out
And get it straight or say good night.

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God, I know I'm one

Crawl and 1OOO

[-]

Posts: 11032

(07/07/08 5:53 PM)

The Fuzzy Physicist
Administrator

There was a great Seinfeld clip where his girlfriend asks him,

G: Do you want to go dancing?

Jerry, Cheerfully: No!

G: Why not?

J: Because dancing is stupid!

I realize I just said at another board that I can't believe that someone could just not like music; it's a part of being human. But I don't see dancing as the same thing at all.

So, I don't agree with what FO said about "everyone can dance". Whoever just spontaneously starts dancing? Maybe if you're talking about that "raise your hands in the air and kind of sway" thing, but even then, by that standard, talk-singing would qualify as singing, and people still probably do that way more than any kind of dancing. Almost everyone at least tries to sing along to songs they like.

Flying Omelette

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Posts: 17476

(07/07/08 6:31 PM)

Frickin' Fred Durst on Stilts

I guess because a lot of dancing just looks the same to me - people jumping around. And I imagine that almost anyone, with a few lessons, could probably do okay. Not everyone who tries to sing can sing well, not even all professionals do.

One thing that's funny about The Muppet Show is how blatantly the gay and bi guest stars flaunt it. I heard they had trouble getting guest stars until that Russian ballet dancer (who was gay) did the show, and then they had people lining up for it. I wonder if some of them realized it was an opportunity to "be themselves" on television and get away with it because it would just be seen as fitting in with the rest of the show's goofiness. (In fact, the Elton John episode directly addresses this...)

Think of what you're saying,
You can get it wrong
And still you think that it's all right.
Think of what I'm saying,
We can work it out
And get it straight or say good night.

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God, I know I'm one

CRAWLand1000

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Posts: 3545

(07/08/08 11:53 AM)

The Fuzzy Physicist
Administrator

I don't think many people could have danced in the Thriller video, for example. Aside from having to look good and be precise, they had to have perfect timing so they'd all fit together.

And now that I think about it, I have experience in trying to teach people to do coordinated things with their bodies, and in that experience I'd say that most people have no natural talent at it at all.

"Without a foothold in the past, we cannot walk towards the future."
-Vagrant Story

Bomberguy221

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Posts: 1948

(07/09/08 5:11 AM)

Hit and away is my style!

I'm not saying dancing is the ultimate form of human expression. If anything, I'd say it's writing. I am saying that for all of the things that you could have a cute robot do, dancing seems like an appropriate one just because it'd be fun to watch. I'm hard-pressed to think of something better and more entertaining to watch than dancing.

I will concede that they probably could have Wall-E do something like an electronic serenade and it be enchanting. The movie is so visual - Wall-E and Eve have great difficulty communicating through anything other than physical interaction - that sound would fit in there awkwardly. And yes, I know that it's a conscious choice by the writer, Pixar, Disney, and anyone who laid hands on this film to have dancing play a prominent role. Hand-holding seemed to be the biggest thing for this movie, though, so I have trouble buying that dance is metaphorical for being gay. I mean, where would it end? Where would it begin? Disney has always been a very dance- and music-polluted company. To suddenly have movies make it mean something else is just too hard of a logical leap for me to make.

I haven't seen "High School Musical," so maybe Disney's trying to push something after all. And a movie with the ultra-left tilt that this one has would be ideal for such a message to sneak in unnoticed. But I'm more inclined to think that the success of HSM and corporate greed taking advantage of the "next big thing" has more to do with the recent outbreak of dancing in movies than any political message.

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